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Old 07-19-2012, 09:47 AM   #1
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What Does “Riders Rights” Mean to You?

The phrase “Riders Rights,” what does it mean to you? I am thinking that maybe the definition shifts depending on what stage we are in our lives or what kind to risks we are willing to take. Throw in the BARF factor and you have a blender full of opinions that may flush out. But I would hedge a bet that BARF, as a group has some very similar opinions on what our rights as riders should include.

For instance, the AMA as well as several states support the Right to Not Wear a Helmet. Personally, I am a strong believer in ATGAT and think that riding with a helmet is just plain common sense. However do I think my rights as a rider are being infringed upon because there is a law in place saying I have to wear one? Dunno.

How about the right not to be profiled or stereotyped because we ride motorcycles (no Motorcycle Only Checkpoints's, checkpoints for all vehicles only)? Last Friday July 13, California Gov. Jerry Brown signed Assembly Bill 1047 into law, which prohibits motorcycle-only checkpoints. Introduced by Assemblyman Kevin Jeffries on Feb. 18, 2011, the bill prohibits law enforcement agencies from establishing checkpoints where the only vehicles subject to inspection are motorcycles.

So I would like to start a discussion. As a motorcycle rider, what rights are important to you?
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:16 PM   #2
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i can understand both sides of the helmet law. my stance is that it does save lives!
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:13 AM   #3
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For instance, the AMA as well as several states support the Right to Not Wear a Helmet. Personally, I am a strong believer in ATGAT and think that riding with a helmet is just plain common sense.
I agree, AMA has to be all things to all people, with each state with different laws regarding such things, it boils down to personal liberty.

You stated
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riding with a helmet is just plain common sense.[
Absolutely, but some people do not have the cognitive skills to apply common sense, so laws have to be made.

I dont care of people smoke, I do not want to pay for there last remaining years, months or days sucking on an air tube grasping for each breath. They made the decision they need to live or die by it. Same as helmets IMHO

The myth of rights is you are free to do as you please. Nobody is truly Free we all have to abide by some code be it moral or ethical.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:18 AM   #4
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Yes, helmets do save lives and everyone has some internal moral code or compass and need to be held accountable to their decisions and actions. Maybe I need to be more direct.

Look at the world you know as a motorcycle rider. In what way do you think you are restricted just because you are on a moto?

Take lane sharing for example. In CA we have more leniency than in other states but it is still up to an officer’s discretion.

Or Road conditions. The Bear Creek Rd thread (and recent fallen rider on Bear Creek) got me thinking about road conditions, bumps potholes or otherwise. If you are on a road that has just been chip sealed and there are no caution signs and you riding within the posted limits and you go down, is it your fault?

Others that come to mind are noise restrictions, smog, insurance. What if there was a law requiring armored gear?
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:53 AM   #5
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I agree, AMA has to be all things to all people, with each state with different laws regarding such things, it boils down to personal liberty.

I dont care of people smoke, I do not want to pay for there last remaining years, months or days sucking on an air tube grasping for each breath. They made the decision they need to live or die by it. Same as helmets IMHO

The myth of rights is you are free to do as you please. Nobody is truly Free we all have to abide by some code be it moral or ethical.
You think that they want to pay for a moto rider who is injured for.life because they chose to ride?

Freedom ain't free brother.. see all sides.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:45 AM   #6
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Not sure what that has to do with riders rights in your metaphor on bear creek.

Am I restricted, I do not believe lane sharing is a fundamental right, it is designated by law to be lawful to do in CA, thus granting me the right to do so lawfully.

I do not feel my rights are violated at all with the helmet law. But some may feel they are. I also felt that the law for kids under a certain age to wear helmets on any scooter bike or skates was a great idea, I made my kids wear them before it was law. Some parents think not like I

I am not following you on the Riders Rights though. I personally do not feel any of my Personal Liberties have been violated. Now if we are talking about Motorcycle only Check point as a point of argument then yes, I agree my personal liberties are violated.

So personally, no I am not restricted from Street IMHO, but dirt, now we open a whole can of worms, and yes, my pursuit of happiness is violated as riding in OHV areas are being taken from us.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:13 PM   #7
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As a motorcycle rider, what rights are important to you?
Lane Sharing is #1 for me. I think that we're in jeopardy of loosing the right to do so.

I'm not a fan of laws that restrict our right to wear what I choose to (or not to).

I think that the repercussions for killing a motorcyclist are way too lenient.

I think that motorcyclists need to be more proactive when it comes to protecting their/our rights. We need to nip things like this in the bud. By the time a right is violated, it can be too late.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:09 AM   #8
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I think that motorcyclists need to be more proactive when it comes to protecting their/our rights. We need to nip things like this in the bud. By the time a right is violated, it can be too late.
i think it's a bigger thing...many citizens don't even vote or when they do, spend their vote unwisely without doing diligence and understanding issues and who's running for office.

many folks are oblivious of what's going on...as a friend of mine put it, "We have become the Zombified Society."
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:53 AM   #9
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As a motorcycle rider, what rights are important to you?
The duty to be a good neighbor to other neighbors.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:27 PM   #10
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riders rights.. good question.

were do rights and infringements meet?

when a government requires you to have something on you, that is were a right has been removed. and if not you get sighted or even jail time.

as for the "rules" of the rd, this pertains to all for the safety of all. no right has been tampered with, as you have the right and ability to NOT ride or drive on the roads.

as in something that just happened here in the U.S.A.
you have the right to own and carry a loaded gun. YES.
any law stating otherwise is illegal.

but do you have a right to just start shooting in a movie theater? NO.
there are times and places were common sense says the public at large has the right to be safe.

as to a right to be searched just cause you are on a given rd,or just a given place. is a crime by a Fascist state.."show me your papers".

having your car or your bike even your body searched, with NO know crime having been committed, or charges brought forth, and no arrest having been done.
is a crime, again by a Fascist state.

We as a people have the right to travel freely to and fro with out fear of a cop, "just stopping us for..what ever.

as to noise. well here is another question.
your freedom and bothering others is a blurring of the lines.
as a society we kinda agree that you can make just so much noise during the day time..but if a day sleeper lives close then what?

common sense shows up again. best to be nice to the sleeper. as you can make noise else were. society makes rules we all need to live with in with out trampling on ones "rights"

again we as a society agree on speed laws, only 25mph here, but there you can do 65mph.
again NO rights have been trampled,

to say YOU MUST ware a helmet, or ware that seat belt. pending how it is looked at your rights can or can not be hurt.

we have the right to live our lives as we see fit....but if you require society to support you, do to a very bad choice on your part.
then here society buts in.
with helmet and seat belt laws. your freedom has been cut short.

now if we were to remove these laws and replace them with one law stating if you are not using said. then you can not get support from the tax dollars of others. your right has not been touched.

rights and rules and laws are in place to protect, and serve society then they are good.
but if laws or rules are used or abused to hurt a single person or society as a whole. then they are wrong.

sometimes the wants of a single person, must stand a side to the needs of many. so long as the one is not hurt in the posses.

does the want of a mass murder have the free right to murder?

does the needs of a group of people have the right to not be shot??

this question of rights can go on and on and on and on.

and should be a on going debate.



.

wow did i just type all this....


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Last edited by packnrat; 07-22-2012 at 09:30 PM.. Reason: tyop
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:30 PM   #11
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…Not sure what that has to do with riders rights in your metaphor on bear creek.
That was a bit of a leap. What I was trying to get to was road conditions. Is it a right to have a road in good repair? There was lots of talk about how the condition of Bear Creek Rd (in CoCo County) is so bumpy in some sections that it could be considered hazardous. The reality is that if you are driving the speed limit, it is not an issue. But lets say there a pothole, or an unmarked bump, or a loose bot dot mid apex of a big sweeper which, at the posted speed limit, causes an accident. Is that a right that has been infringed upon?

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I am not following you on the Riders Rights though. I personally do not feel any of my Personal Liberties have been violated.
And that is why I wanted to start this discussion. We have a forum to discuss Streetrider’s Rights and kick some ideas around. If we didn’t think it was important, it would not be here.

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I think that the repercussions for killing a motorcyclist are way too lenient.

I think that motorcyclists need to be more proactive when it comes to protecting their/our rights. We need to nip things like this in the bud. By the time a right is violated, it can be too late.
Very true. What do you think can be done about this? Is this a matter of motorcyclists not being proactive about protecting our rights?

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The duty to be a good neighbor to other neighbors.
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as to noise. well here is another question.
your freedom and bothering others is a blurring of the lines.
as a society we kinda agree that you can make just so much noise during the day time..but if a day sleeper lives close then what?

common sense shows up again. best to be nice to the sleeper. as you can make noise else were. society makes rules we all need to live with in with out trampling on ones "rights"
Lane sharing, sharing the road (don’t get me started on bicyclists ) and noise levels could fall into the Good Neighbor bucket. Is it a right for others to behave the same way towards Streetriders, being “good neighbors”?
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Old 07-29-2012, 06:06 PM   #12
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Lane Sharing is #1 for me. I think that we're in jeopardy of loosing the right to do so.

I'm not a fan of laws that restrict our right to wear what I choose to (or not to).

I think that the repercussions for killing a motorcyclist are way too lenient.

I think that motorcyclists need to be more proactive when it comes to protecting their/our rights. We need to nip things like this in the bud. By the time a right is violated, it can be too late.
^This pretty much.
I also would like to see better legislation regarding noise emissions. I don't have a problem with requiring bikes to meet the same noise regs as any other vehicle; however, I don't like the fact that at the moment even if an aftermarket exhaust meets the dB limit is it illegal. I think the current flaunting of noise regs because of a lack of enforcement is also bad and detrimental to our rights.
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Old 07-17-2015, 05:13 PM   #13
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Our rights are explained in this excellent (NOT!!) article

http://bikersofamerica.blogspot.com/...round-usa.html

It's all in there, here's my commentary

Who is “Everyone” and who is “we” and what does “Everyone” agree to stop "us" from doing?

“Self-evident truths” translated – "I just made this up and there is no way I am able to prove it but I am calling it self-evident so you can't argue it". And it sounds like something from our constitution, so if you argue with the statement itself, I can call you un-patriotic and tell you politely to get out of here where otherwise everyone agrees. Oh wait, we had “Everyone” before, what do they agree on?
Then comes a rant of impotent government and self-serving politicians. Maybe a few politicians are tying to sleep? How utterly self-serving of them. Or maybe they want to sit in their offices and actually do some work we which are paying them for. Disgusting, get a life, politicians.
“Conjuring problems out of thin air” - yes, the noise from a Harley without muffler going by my house at 2am while the rider is again and again “blipping” the throttle in well known Harley manner does indeed come from thin air, or at least travel through it in order to assault my ear drums – but I would not agree with the part that it is a conjured problem. It is a real problem, at least for me. I don't know about all other living creatures, but I need sleep. Sleep has been researched a lot. Sleep patterns have been identified – and the need to have those patterns uninterrupted, otherwise the people get sick, physically and mentally. Quickly, in fact.

About enforcing laws. Interesting point of view, as it's pretty much “self-evident” (hehe), that laws which are not enforced are useless. They are in fact harmful as they punish the honest and give an incentive to the dishonest because they now have a clear edge over the honest.
So – seriously, I can see how somebody might want to oppose or get rid of certain laws, but opposing the enforcement of existing laws makes no sense at all.
Example: I am against speed limits in general. However, when there are speed limits, they have to be enforced. Like on 580 around Livermore/Pleasanton. On my bike, I have two choices:
a) Go the posted 55 (plus a few extra “leeway”) and seriously risk getting hit from behind because EVERYBODY goes 80 there, so I would definitely get killed instantly.
b) Go 80 along with everybody else and risk getting a HUGE speeding ticket (way over + double ticket due to construction). Then I am a bad person with a record.
Makes that freeway pretty much unusable for bikes in my opinion.

Next example: Theft, murder. If not enforced, what would happen? What would stop anybody from using their AR-15 to blow away some guy because you want their stuff? What about rape? Hey, I didn't get lucky in a while and that chick over there looks really hot... Would it really be a good idea if the only reaction from society would be: Oh well...

I don't like rules and laws either, but the ones we do need, definitely need to be enforced.

Noise Pollution – one of those new problems that have been created as if by magic. In 2004 to be exact. Just like air pollution – also recently created as if by magic. And pollution of water, land. Created as if by magic? Err, no. That's human doing. That's us throwing away stuff, dumping crap and spewing into the atmosphere. That's us shitting onto our living room carpet and our dinner table. And yes, that's disturbing the peace and quiet through obnoxious noise.
Technical things, actually all things, including ourselves function due to a couple of principles, one of which is scientifically called “signal to noise ratio”. That's the quotient of “wanted/useful” divided by “unwanted/distracting”. It's easy to try: Put a little more of something “unwanted” in and the device or creature will get problems or stop functioning alltogether. Example: Coffee on your laptop, sugar in your tank, poison in your body, arrow in your neighbors cat. (Don't try this at home!)
Seriously – that's why modern technical stuff is often made in expensive “clean rooms” as even a little bit of dust will render it inoperable, in many cases (example semiconductors, my business) they simply would not work at all – seriously, not at all, not a single one of them.

Enter noise. Noise is actually a technical term and refers to any “unwanted/distracting” element as in above “signal to noise” ratio. Light entering your camera through a gap in the housing after you dropped it, would be considered noise. It reduces the contrast of your picture potentially all the way to no contrast at all, an all white picture. Astronomers know of “light pollution” over cities and “seeing conditions” (air fluctuations) which both show up as noise on their pictures reducing useful contrast and hence reduce usefulness of the picture. All of those are typically expressed in “db”. Other example are thermic noise on camera chips limiting useful sensitivity or in audio equipment being audible as “noise” - here typically so called white or pink noise, a kind of “hiss” - probably well known by everybody.

The unit “db” (Decibel) is actually not really a unit as in Volt, kilowatt, horsepower or inches because it's just a ratio of two numbers. Since useful ratios are necessarily quite large, db uses a logarithmic scale. That means that a small difference in db numbers actually means a big difference in reality. For example 83db is said to be twice as loud (or powerful) as 80db.

So, Ted Rueter “invented” Noise Pollution. Fine, even if – so what? Would that make it less true or less of a problem? Again, an entire neighborhood of people, potentially hundreds, waking up at 2am, many having difficulty getting back to sleep, some developing sleep deprivation, anger, problems at work or just frustration and lack of motivation – only because ONE person thinks it's his/her (well, fellow men, most likely his...) right to produce ANY level of sound whenever and wherever they please?

The article is playing with “us”, “we”, “him”, they at liberty. Just to try to sort this out: Is “Everyone” (as in 480 million US inhabitants) out to get “us” (a couple of ten-thousand-or-so Harley riders with loud exhausts) --- or is it only Ted Rueter? If it's only that one guy, then I don't think they have anything to worry about, neither H.D. Company nor the loud riders. If it's everybody, then maybe there is a point?? Which one is it, Bikers of America?
Just Ted or everybody? Talk to Daddy, who's out there to get you, huh?

Harley's statement. There are a lot of references to McCaslin's alleged statement but all links are dead, it would be great if somebody could point to a reliable source. All references agree that Harley took a stance along the lines: Guys, be reasonable, don't be obnoxious with your bikes, it reflects negatively on all of us which can't really be in anybody's interest. Whether they were afraid of a class action suit or just worried about losing business or actually have somewhat of a conscience – who cares. They made the statement and that's that. Maybe they are even trying to sell their own “aftermarket” exhausts which are “a little” louder but not obnoxious and take business away from real aftermarket producers of “roaring hell devil intimidator super pipe avenger screaming freedom” continue in your own words....
But the real evil here is the potential of a class action lawsuit due to some evil lawyers? (Inject … self-serving … anywhere you feel like it)

Funny, in this context, check this out:
http://www.opolaw.com/cases/harley-d...n-burn-lawsuit

Nooohhh – some bikers got their legs and jeans burned by “excessive heat” and they are consequently class-action-suing Harley for bad engineering. Surely, there are evil self-serving lawyers involved. Snicker.
Actually, think about this for a while – this is seriously hilarious, hysterical.


Victims of noise pollution speak out.
Sure, the real issue is not noise here, guys, it's your tattoos and your “unruly” hair. That's an easy way to more revenue for “overpaid cops”. And of course, now I get it, it suddenly all makes sense. It's not the noise – I wake up to the Harley at 2am not because of the noise, but because I have been alerted to this new issue, I've been downright brainwashed by a media frenzy whipped up by a political activism professor! Oh, I've been had again, damn... I am really getting old, started seeing and hearing things.

A few more “us” - but this time with explanation: “This time us means us”. Okay? Sure, that clears it up. If anybody had any doubts before, now – there you have it.

By the way – regarding the mean old overpaid cops out there ticketing the hell out of unruly haired peaceful citizens minding their own business: In my frenzy to find some precedence about cases of noise issues actually being enforced, all I found was: Unenforcible, cases thrown out in court due to lack of evidence, cheap fix-it tickets at best, where the culprits “slipped on” the factory exhaust, showed it at the office to ge the ticket cleared, “slipped on” the real thing again and bragged about it on the internet. I wonder if any of them ever actually had to pay any amount even on the order of a parking ticket.

Myrtle Beach, 83db noise limit. Yes, 83db is picked out of a hat. Just like 65mph. Other options under consideration for this one: Instead of 65mph - 300mph (my proposal), 7mph (Jodie Foster's). Sorry Jodie, just kidding, I greatly enjoy many of your movies. 65mph got picked as we all now. Luck of the draw.
Now come the “comparisons”: Telephone dial tone (??): 80db I don't know when is the last time the writer of the article has used a telephone (and measured the volume of the dial tone) but, err, speaking of pulling numbers out of hats. Subway train at 200 feet distance, 95db. In the tunnel? So, like 200 feet in front of it or behind, because next to it, in about 2 feet distance is the tunnel wall. They can't be talking about BART, because that's more like 9000db, no wait, the theoretic maximum volume is 195db or so. Anyways, fair enough, so Myrtle Beach requires motorcycles to be quieter than subway trains. Oh, and fighter jets for that matter. Luckily neither of the latter goes by my house in close proximity night by night. I wonder what a subway train would sound like when the engineer (do you still call them engineers in electric trains?) repeatedly “revved” it? Snicker. Like, when he's angrily waiting in a station for some granny to get in.

Now, here comes the pinnacle of this excellent article: Good ol' Ludwig van! No way, that's not fair! (Get it, A clockwork Orange, Ludovico, …) Come on guys, that's got to be the worst pink elephant anybody every claimed to have pulled out of a hat. You are not seriously claiming that Ode to Joy, or any musical piece for that matter is 125db, do you? If I ask you what the water temperature is? 65F? Or the color of a Harley Davidson bike? Err, chrome?
Seriously, did Ludwig van write in his notes: “This to be played with 125db!” (In Latin of course, or is that what “crescendo” actually means?)

In any case, even if it were so: The orchestra does not march by my window at 2am playing Ode to Joy, unfortunately I have to pay big bucks, go to a closed concert hall, wear a smoking, comb my unruly hair not to get ticketed and make sure I'm on time, as on the outside of the concert hall, I'll hear ----- ? Birds chirping, the wind in the trees, maybe the occasional subway train revving by or even a Harley that missed the tunnel, but for sure not a single note of the good ol' Ninth. Or fifth, or Isolde or whatever. Because that's solidly contained inside. That containment is necessary not so much to keep Ludwig in, but YOUR crap OUT – because after paying a hundred bucks per seat, the concert goers want to hear the Ninth in it's original form, and Ludwig did not compose revving V-twin's into the piece. What an oversight on his part, maybe he wasn't that hot of a composer afterall...

California (according to this article) uses 95db, mind you according to the math that's 16 times as “loud” as in Myrtle Beach (95db-83db=12db, 3db is double, thus four times double or two to the power of four equals 16). Sixteen schmixteen, who is to say what is 16 times louder? What's even twice as loud. Hard to say, but it's obviously a big difference. For reference, the opening aria in Mozarts “Figaro” is 113db which is the same difference to the Ode mentioned before, just so you you can compare notes. Just kidding.

Then the article complains about the cop using his discretion to ticket 60 bikers. So, what do you want – numbers, no numbers, hat-tricks, cops' discretion? Oh, you want none of it, I get it, basically the “free ride”. Sure, we all want that. So, why don't we all remove our mufflers, on Priuses, Corolla's, of course trucks, also - I'd say let's get those older jetliners from 30 years back, their screaming engines were just so much more fun. Also, let's stop the stupid jobs/economy hindering night-flight ban and while we're at it, offer flights from Oakland to San Francisco with the Concorde, that thing was a blast!! Plus, you definitely beat traffic across the bridge. And of course, with on-board internet and cell phone calling, you get to say “Guess where I'm calling from...”.

I personally want to see the hot rod Prius, though. Throttle blipping burnout donut, all on hybrid energy – strictly environmental.


Ok, we're down to “Loud pipes save lives”. Not going to get into that – yawn. There is a twist in this article though: It increases horsepower from 58 to 68, which is a big deal when you need to accelerate away from danger. Like when the light switches to green? It, in all honesty, though, does sound a little funny:
Here are the hardcore, eat-dust, all-american, bravest-of-the-brave, take-no-shit from anybody, "I wear no sissy gear", paying serious dollars for the “ultimate motorcycle”, heaviest thing around. They add as many chrome spikes ready to skewer them as the thing will take. Then they are worried about needing to make a lot of noise to alert the world that they are coming, and they are also REALLY worried that their 58 horsepower (seriously, 58??) is not enough to get them out of the constant, serious danger they are in. It's a fucking jungle out there, man! It's war! Without the ultimate armory we are helpless against all those Priuses!
Excuse me, sir, is it possible that you got ripped off? I didn't know they still made bikes that had 58 horsepower. Can you legally drive those on the freeway? Shouldn't you rather safely ride those in a safe mall parking lot? We put up some cones? I mean, hey, this is not a joke, don't try this at home, kids! How much did you pay for that thing? And then come the pipes, which of course require removal of the catalytic (all an invention of some leftist, liberal evil lawyer anyways, real men don't use catalytics) and then a good fattening up of the mixture as that new “free flow” exhaust unfortunately kills performance due to some crazy-ass physical effect nobody will ever understand and which is probably the invention of (ok, repetition).... Lambda 1 is for sissies! I know what I hear! I know what I smell!

By the way – seriously, this is not kidding: I rode north on 880 yesterday. At the 101 intersection, traffic was stopped. I was (of course) splitting as usual, so I got to the front. Red Harley dinged up on its side in the center lane, rider (no need to describe) sitting on the center divide talking to cops, big-tire/small-whatever lifted truck pulled over. Not commenting on what had happened as I obviously don't know, however, here's the score: Loud Pipes: 0 Splitting with Brain engaged: 1 (Lifted pickup, intersection, 3-2 lane merge – all good reasons not to barge through there while hoping for loud pipes to clear the way, even though he looked a little bit like Moses)

I still hope the guy is ok. Some safety gear would have been a good idea, though.

Oakland cops.
What can I say? He who makes the rules also bends them. If the story is actually true, I find it really stupid of the police to act like that. I think to shoot fast and deadly are not the most important qualifications for police officers. Also, as far as I know, as long as they are not in an active “hot” situation, with lights and sirens on, they have to stick to all traffic rules, just like everybody else. Yeah, right... Don't bother stopping at signs, using your signals, sticking to the speed limit, not making huge noise. You're special and the laws of physics don't apply in your case. Well, it could be the material, we've seen in Blues Brothers what cop engine, cop transmission and cop tires can do. Hit it!
By the way – what's with “exempt” license plates. No smog checks for police and other community vehicles? Not necessary? Not affordable? Hello?

How do I feel about those rules and regulations in place “for my safety” when the people in charge simply ignore them? Not so much about my safety afterall? Is the article actually correct in this aspect – it's all about the money? Or is there something wrong with the public's driving education, the officials are just so much better trained than the general public, that they can easily handle the extra challenge?

Or does it come to this:
Just don't get caught. Is that what our society is all about?

Is our society really all about taking as much as I can and giving nothing back?
All rights, no responsibilities?
Fuck everybody else!

Seriously??
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:25 AM   #14
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Interesting points. Will take some time to read and will respond in a couple of days...
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Old 07-21-2015, 09:22 AM   #15
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If you changed out your pipes you know why you did it

I almost missed the above sentence in the article I mentioned:
"If you changed out your pipes you know why you did it."

Interesting statement. What does it actually say, this statement?
Is it supposed to be some sort of justification?

There is another one, I read in a couple of places:
"I don't give a shit what others are thinking (about me, bike, pipes,noise etc. ...)"

Do people not realize how incredibly dumb those statements are?

The first one obviously has no meaning at all. It's completely hollow, just a few words congregated to a sentence that says nothing. Basically like "This time us is us!"

The second sentence is a blatant lie.
1. The very fact that the person creates noise is BECAUSE he/she desperately wants to get noticed, which is exactly the opposite of what he/she claims
2. If they really didn't care, they'd have to admit (at least to themselves), that that directly puts them outside of society. There used to be a term for people like that, they were called outlaws and it was anybody's right to do to them whatever they wanted, including simply killing them. If that regulation was still in place, they'd most likely not do what they are doing. Therefore, they are doing it ONLY because other people in fact do care and don't just go about killing them. In other words, they are relying on other people to care about them as persons in the very thing they are doing for which they claim not to care about other opinions. Preventing killings works by threat to reprimand the killer via the power of society. Therefore the only protection people have against getting killed by somebody they pissed off is by this mechanism, in other words, they are relying on exactly THAT society for their own protection, which they claim not to give a shit about.


The first sentence is obviously trying to say (while failing miserably): I have reasons to do what I am doing and I believe those reasons are important enough to disturb everybody's lives, but I think that my reasons are of no concern to you, so don't bug me about it and shut up.

What the second sentence is really saying is: "I see no other way to get attention as I am completely useless and nobody will even notice me if I don't do what I am doing. I realize that this last-ditch effort (before killing myself) is annoying to others, but since the rest of society is quite peaceful, I hope to get away with it. Plus I don't have much to lose anyways."

What do you say, losers? Probably not much, go make some noise instead!

I do realize that what I am writing can be viewed as directed, personal attacks on some people. That would be correct, and fully intentional. It's an eye for an eye, I am being attacked many times both during the day and at night, my (and many others') health is being attacked and my personal rights are being trampled on, for the dubious, and more than useless "enjoyment" of a few. They can't even claim that they have the law on their side, because they don't. Even the law is actually against them, very explicitly so.

However, it's not personal in the sense that I am attacking Michael or Bob, Frank or Joe - I am attacking faceless terrorists who are characterized by disturbing the peace.
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