BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Moto > 1Rider


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-27-2010, 05:39 PM   #61
Barnaby Wilde
Keep your airspeed up!
 
Barnaby Wilde's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Castro Valley
Motorcycles: ‘14 Triumph Tiger 800XC, '99 Suz DR650, '01 Suz SV650S, '80 Citabria 7ECA
Name:
Hi Guys,

I am reading a book titled, "The Invisible Gorilla", by Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons. The book is about how our brains limit our ability to see or hear events, and carries on on how memory is also quite fallible.

The "invisible gorilla" refers to a psychological experiment where a person with a gorilla suit is able to enter a scene of a videoed basketball "game", and half the people who view the video (given the task to count passes) do not even see/notice the appearance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

The writers devote several pages on the issue of why car drivers turn into motorcycles (and bicyclist/pedestrians...). Basically, the drivers have "inattentive blindness" and do not see motorcyclists, even when you have your headlights on or are wearing bright clothing. You have become the "invisible gorilla"...

Interesting reading, and quite thought provoking. As motorcyclists, you cannot make any assumptions that you have been seen.

Harry

Last edited by Barnaby Wilde; 06-27-2010 at 05:46 PM..
Barnaby Wilde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2010, 06:40 PM   #62
iehawk
Veteran
 
iehawk's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Union City
Motorcycles: K1200R (found a new home), S1000RR
Name: Al
Yup.

I personally believe the only way we can make the road safer is to raise the level of awareness and education.

The DMV test is a joke... both for car and motorcycle. They don't reflect the real world situation at all, literally just a formality.

They should make it so much more thorough and make people pay for it. Not that it has to be expensive, but when people pay more than a pocket change for it, they tend to take it a bit more seriously. After all driving/riding is a privilege, not a right.

That's another psychological thing. Not many of us would pick up pennies from the ground, but when it's $1, $5, or $20... different story.
__________________
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

"There is always more traction than you think.", Kari Prager

www.lanesplittingislegal.com
iehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2010, 05:25 PM   #63
MCSFTGUY
Seriously Disturbed Calm
 
MCSFTGUY's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Where MC Stops
Motorcycles: Concourse 14 & HD
Name: Albatross
Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDan View Post
As it attacks prey, a dragonfly hides itself by flying in a straight line directly toward the victim, so it looks like a stationary object in the background. The same effect can make a motorcycle go unnoticed in traffic.

Duncan MacKillop, the riding instructor who related motion camouflage to motorcycling, suggests that diverging from a direct line of sight will break the camouflage and get the driver's attention:
I observed a smooth, gentle, single, zigzag motion, at any point along the line, created a rapid edge movement against the background and destroyed the motion camouflage. Drivers' eyes snapped towards me and they froze the movement I swept left to right and back again.
Good Stuff Dan!

However, I have to tell you that I am not a big fan of the motion camoflouge theory. There is a big difference in the shape of a Dragon-fly's body as compared to a motorcycle. Smooth tapering cylinder as compared to a jagged edge machine that with rider has a large over all field of displacement. And, the roadway doesn't allow us to maintain the same visual background.

However, the part about the gentle weaving in the lane is always a great idea. It is not so much that it changes you view with the background in as much as it increases the apparent angular size of the approaching motorcycle.

Part two... I will have to admit to a little bias on this. I absolutely hate giving the driving public any kind of excuse for not seeing an approaching motorcycle. I have been listening for a lot of years to riders talking about drivers and telling them they have to see us. IMHO, drivers don't see because they don't look and/or are distacted and the I didn't see the motorcycle is an excuse that has been around for so long they fall back on it in order to try and provide an excuse for they inattention.

So, I will always be looking to try and take this "excuse" away from a driver, be it through a gentle weaving back and forth in the lane, to showing that the angular displacement of a bike and rider is too big for this excuse to fly.

Thanks Dan.....
__________________
Insanity; Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
MCSFTGUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2010, 09:21 AM   #64
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
 
DataDan's Avatar
 
BARF Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2010 & 2014
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo
Motorcycles: Yamaha FJR1300
Name: Dan
Obstructed sightlines--3 recent crashes

While some left-turner crashes are caused by drivers who simply don't see a motorcycle in plain view at predictable speed, in others (as you probably know if you've followed this thread) the sightline between rider and driver is blocked by intervening vehicles. That may not absolve the left-turning driver of responsibility for the crash, but it certainly identifies a hazardous situation a rider can learn to recognize and react to.

In the past week, three motorcyclists have lost their lives in crashes where the sightline between the rider and a left-turner was blocked by traffic between them. These tragic events show how crucial it is to be able to anticipate situations where a threat can go unseen until it's too late.
  • In the Bay Area, a rider approaches an uncontrolled intersection in the #3 lane. The #1 and #2 are stopped due to heavy traffic ahead, but the #3 is clear because it becomes a right-turn lane in the next block. The stopped vehicles have left the intersection open (as required by California's anti-gridlock law), and an oncoming pickup begins to turn left. But the driver fails to check for traffic in the #3 and crosses the motorcycle's path, leaving the rider no time to react.

  • In San Bernardino County, a rider approaches an intersection in the #3 lane while traffic in the #1 and #2 is still stopped for the red light. Timing his approach perfectly, he passes the stopped vehicles when the light turns green. But an oncoming driver--who has either run the red or cut it very close--is completing a left turn just as the motorcycle enters the intersection.

  • In Pennsylvania, two lanes of traffic are coming to a stop at an intersection as the light turns yellow. A motorcyclist splits between the two lanes and accelerates through. But an oncoming vehicle turning left on the yellow crosses in front of the motorcycle.
When an adjacent lane obstructs the view to a potential threat, but a gap in that lane permits traffic to cross, slow down and approach the area of vulnerability carefully. Assume there is a crossing vehicle until you can clearly see that there is not.
__________________
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
--Richard Feynman
DataDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2010, 02:01 PM   #65
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
 
DataDan's Avatar
 
BARF Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2010 & 2014
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo
Motorcycles: Yamaha FJR1300
Name: Dan
This just in: Another obstructed sightline

A similar crash occurred in the Bay Area this morning, fortunately with only moderate injuries to the rider.
  • On a road with one lane in each direction plus a center turn lane, westbound traffic is stopped at a light ahead. A motorcyclist is using the center lane to pass the stopped traffic and reach the left-turn lane at the upcoming intersection. But a driver in the westbound thru lane leaves open a gap so an SUV exiting a driveway on the right can cross into the eastbound lane. The SUV crosses the center lane just ahead of the motorcycle, and the two collide.
__________________
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
--Richard Feynman
DataDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2010, 02:42 PM   #66
RRrider
Enthusiast, Fukrwe Club
 
RRrider's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2709351
Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mountain View CA
Motorcycles: Daytona 675R 2013, S1000XR 2016, KTM 350 exc-f 2016
Name: Richard
on motion camo theory, the human eye/mind is hard wired to notice motion, so I am compelled by Data Dan's slow weave suggestion...create edge motion against what could otherwise be a "constant" background. Cool idea, and I'm going to start trying it.

That said, if you subscribe to the "subconscious mind, when processing quickly, filters out anything not considered a threat" theory, then even if the edge motion increases the initial detection, the "posed threat" filter subsequently drops it. Take away, do what you can to be noticed, but always ride as if they can't see you. Empirically, they seem not to.
__________________
"Not all storms come to disrupt your life, some come to clear the path” Paulo Coehlo
"Pain is weakness leaving your body"
"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do, than by the ones you did do." - Mark Twain
"Nanakorobi Yaoki"
RRrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2010, 08:40 PM   #67
iehawk
Veteran
 
iehawk's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Union City
Motorcycles: K1200R (found a new home), S1000RR
Name: Al
+1 on the slow weave suggestion.

I've been doing as far as not staying statically in reference with other vehicles in traffic. I tend to move through, left and right on my lane (or on rare occasion hang back). Never stay statically.

I also don't ride (or drive) behind a car, in front of a car, or next to a car (or any other vehicles)... for too long. Got the idea from watching the first Jurassic Park, when they talked about how the T-Rex's vision is based on motion.

Fingers crossed, so far it works great.
__________________
"Slow is smooth, smooth is fast."

"There is always more traction than you think.", Kari Prager

www.lanesplittingislegal.com

Last edited by iehawk; 10-15-2010 at 08:54 PM..
iehawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 11:01 AM   #68
Maize and Blue
Veteran
 
Maize and Blue's Avatar
 
2% Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Jose
Motorcycles: 10R
Name: Arft
Obstructed sightlines:

Sadly I've watched 2 of these in action. I was riding behind a car in both situations and I slowed as we approached a stalled green with traffic stopped in #1 and 2 lanes. The car in front of me got hit both times by another car turning left. Scary.
Maize and Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 03:43 PM   #69
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
 
DataDan's Avatar
 
BARF Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2010 & 2014
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo
Motorcycles: Yamaha FJR1300
Name: Dan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maize and Blue View Post
Obstructed sightlines:

Sadly I've watched 2 of these in action. I was riding behind a car in both situations and I slowed as we approached a stalled green with traffic stopped in #1 and 2 lanes. The car in front of me got hit both times by another car turning left. Scary.
That's an important point. Some motorcyclists think that bikes are involved in crashes--and, in particular, left-turner crashes--only because they are motorcycles. The assumption is that drivers aren't looking for motorcycles, don't care about them, or whatever. In fact, motorcycles are often involved simply because they happened to be in the wrong place when a cager pulls a bonehead move. It could be a pedestrian, another car, an SUV, a cement mixer, or a fire engine rolling code 3, and the collision would still occur. The big difference when it's a bike is the injuries the rider is likely to suffer.
__________________
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
--Richard Feynman
DataDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2010, 07:15 PM   #70
RRrider
Enthusiast, Fukrwe Club
 
RRrider's Avatar
 
AMA #: 2709351
Contributor

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mountain View CA
Motorcycles: Daytona 675R 2013, S1000XR 2016, KTM 350 exc-f 2016
Name: Richard
Ahhhh...the best education comes from Hollywood . Tool true


Quote:
Originally Posted by iehawk View Post
+1 on the slow weave suggestion.

I've been doing as far as not staying statically in reference with other vehicles in traffic. I tend to move through, left and right on my lane (or on rare occasion hang back). Never stay statically.

I also don't ride (or drive) behind a car, in front of a car, or next to a car (or any other vehicles)... for too long. Got the idea from watching the first Jurassic Park, when they talked about how the T-Rex's vision is based on motion.

Fingers crossed, so far it works great.
__________________
"Not all storms come to disrupt your life, some come to clear the path” Paulo Coehlo
"Pain is weakness leaving your body"
"Twenty years from now, you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do, than by the ones you did do." - Mark Twain
"Nanakorobi Yaoki"
RRrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 08:24 AM   #71
kurth83
Veteran
 
Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Motorcycles: Honda CB500X, BMW F700GS
Name:
passing on right

That lane #1, 2, 3 thing is scary.

When I taught my son to drive a car (aided by courses)
two of the things I stressed were:

1) never make sudden moves that others around you don't expect,
drive slowly and predictably at all times.
There are old people driving whose reaction times are only slightly
faster than glacial ice, who if startled will run over trashcans, animals, and
baby stollers, and ...
2) never scream past a line of stopped cars because
inevitably someone will pull out in front of you at 2 mph.

I admit I never thought of the left turn thing until the MSF,
but the same principle applies.

I always thought it was obvious to not out significantly outspeed traffic
in adjacent lanes.

The irony is after all that, I now commute (in my car) in the carpool lane where
speed differentials can be 50mph or higher, it is terrifying to me actually.
Thus far I have not been cut off, but it is only a matter of time.

And next year I am planning to do it on a bike.
The nice thing about 280 north is the emergency lane on the left is wider than
carpool lane #1, lots of room to avoid being cut off.
kurth83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:06 AM   #72
GirlCurves
My R6 Completes Me
 
GirlCurves's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Motorcycles: 2009 R6
Name: Deborah
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4tuneit1 View Post
Every left turn driver i see up ahead makes me think about this...i usually always make a swerving motion back and forth slightly to get the drivers attention with my headlight. It helps the drivers determine my distance better i gather too.
I do the same thing through the dicey areas of Quito Rd before Lawrence NB in the mornings. Cars tend to hide me as I'm trailing behind them, and swerving back and forth helps cars entering and exiting Quito know that I am there.
__________________
"Lead, follow or get out of the way" - Thomas Paine

"Oh Noez" - Hooli

"Damn. And here I thought I could get better at riding by barfing" - Flying Pig

******************

Gary Jaehne 5/19/12
GirlCurves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:09 AM   #73
GirlCurves
My R6 Completes Me
 
GirlCurves's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Motorcycles: 2009 R6
Name: Deborah
Dan's post is excellent. Thank you! Great information here!
__________________
"Lead, follow or get out of the way" - Thomas Paine

"Oh Noez" - Hooli

"Damn. And here I thought I could get better at riding by barfing" - Flying Pig

******************

Gary Jaehne 5/19/12
GirlCurves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:18 AM   #74
GirlCurves
My R6 Completes Me
 
GirlCurves's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Motorcycles: 2009 R6
Name: Deborah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning1 View Post
I use that technique as well. I already planned my explanation for it, in case I'm pulled over...

"I use this maneuver to make sure I'm noticed. You noticed me, didn't you?"
Excellent!
__________________
"Lead, follow or get out of the way" - Thomas Paine

"Oh Noez" - Hooli

"Damn. And here I thought I could get better at riding by barfing" - Flying Pig

******************

Gary Jaehne 5/19/12
GirlCurves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2010, 09:41 AM   #75
GirlCurves
My R6 Completes Me
 
GirlCurves's Avatar
 
Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Motorcycles: 2009 R6
Name: Deborah
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmer97 View Post
Nice thread.

5. Newbies: travel along grease/oil free zones of your lane.
This is also crucial. That grease is slippery and dangerous and can lead to disaster if a quick stop is required... slide! I've learned to stay to the left as often as possible unless the gentle zig-zag is needed. However, on a freeway in the carpool lane with traffic in front and to my right, I stay more to the right of the grease/oil zone so I can see what's coming up ahead of me.
__________________
"Lead, follow or get out of the way" - Thomas Paine

"Oh Noez" - Hooli

"Damn. And here I thought I could get better at riding by barfing" - Flying Pig

******************

Gary Jaehne 5/19/12
GirlCurves is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.