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Old 09-01-2017, 09:26 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by itisagoodname View Post
I encounter this fairly regularly commuting. Speed delta and traffic gaps are the highest risk situations, and people always seem to be more hostile on the ride home.

This certainly could have been much worse, and certainly much safer as well.

My other question is the complete lack of braking. I find that if i have a potential escape path, i have a much quicker response and am less likely to mix up braking and swerving.

Here is a case where i certainly could not have stopped in time (note the motorcycles that pass directly behind me as well), and the added braking would have put me in direct contact with the rear fender instead of brushing the front fender.
I've had about 3 or 4 incidents like this on freeways & surface streets, so now my mindset is pretty much:

1st. -ponder my escape path continually
2nd - Slow my speed, especially when cars in the other lane comes to a crawl. There's always the ONE cager...ALWAYS!
3rd-Trust the swerve manuever. I see many bikers simply try to ease over out of harms way. SWERVE THAT B*TCH! Especially when you know you have an adequate escape path.
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Old 09-01-2017, 10:13 AM   #17
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Your speed delta in that situation should be determined by your escape path and time to react. With a wall and very little shoulder to escape to, you should be going slow enough that you can come to a complete stop if someone cuts into your lane like they did. If that same car had done that just a little further ahead, you would have rear ended them at high speed.

Delta ALWAYS applies. The speeds shown in that video were grossly unsafe.
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Old 09-01-2017, 10:37 AM   #18
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I've had about 3 or 4 incidents like this on freeways & surface streets, so now my mindset is pretty much:

1st. -ponder my escape path continually
2nd - Slow my speed, especially when cars in the other lane comes to a crawl. There's always the ONE cager...ALWAYS!
3rd-Trust the swerve maneuver. I see many bikers simply try to ease over out of harms way. SWERVE THAT B*TCH! Especially when you know you have an adequate escape path.
just wait...eventually you will have 80, 100, ....2000....too many to count...incidents...if you ride long enough. It becomes constant if you ride one of the heaviest routes (I did, Bay Bridge twice-daily & the 880...)

Having a good delta is one thing & SHOULD be followed if you can. But admit it folks, in some areas around here stopped HOV next lane traffic is constant for miles & miles. You can't always slow or you get someone crawling up your azz...

In that case tailgating the far left (of the van in ur video) may be more desirable? The vehicle in front may provide some "shielding" to prevent you from getting hit if that lane is going speed limit plus...your likely getting tailgated too, so the tailgater is in the most danger, right?

what say thous?
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Old 09-01-2017, 10:52 AM   #19
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just wait...eventually you will have 80, 100, ....2000....too many to count...incidents...if you ride long enough. It becomes constant if you ride one of the heaviest routes (I did, Bay Bridge twice-daily & the 880...)

Having a good delta is one thing & SHOULD be followed if you can. But admit it folks, in some areas around here stopped HOV next lane traffic is constant for miles & miles. You can't always slow or you get someone crawling up your azz...

In that case tailgating the far left (of the van in ur video) may be more desirable? The vehicle in front may provide some "shielding" to prevent you from getting hit if that lane is going speed limit plus...your likely getting tailgated too, so the tailgater is in the most danger, right?

what say thous?
The thing about using a vehicle in front of you to act as a blocker, is that your field of vision ahead will be reduced, especially if you ride to the left of the lane to create a space cushion. And if the vehicle ahead of you does crash into a lane changer, you will likely have no escape path. AND, that 4 wheel vehicle can probably brake in less distance than you. Maybe if the vehicle was a reasonable distance in front of you this could work, but not if you are tailgating it.

If you are going to up your delta, and therefore your level of risk, at least up your level of defensiveness. Cover your front brake, ride to the left and have at least one eye on every wheel of every vehicle you pass, looking to see any side motion whatsoever of a turning wheel (wheels are quicker to spot first than a moving vehicle).

The biggest risk of speed is the faster you go, the more severity of injury if you crash. Don't do anything on the bike that won't allow for an escape path. If you don't have an escape path (braking, swerving or accelerating) than you probably shouldn't do it.
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:12 AM   #20
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You would have had more time and space to react had you been riding in the leftmost side of the lane.

Also consider that your speed (differential) was very high, especially considering your lane position.
^^^ Pretty much everyone posted this, and they're ALL correct.

"Objects in mirror are closer than they seem" If/when that driver checked their mirror, you were but a tiny spot, not even identifiable as a motorcycle.

Car drivers don't take it upon themselves to give us much of a chance to survive, when you do the same, the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Glad it was only a sideswipe and not a full-on rearender!
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Old 09-01-2017, 11:37 AM   #21
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Sweet Jesus that unholy speed delta!

As others have suggested, stay to the left most part of the lane and moderate that delta.

Or tuck in behind another car doing that unholy speed delta if you must.
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Old 09-01-2017, 12:33 PM   #22
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Not to continue the

1. Messed up the person who pulled into the HOV didnt even stop to see if you were ok after they clearly saw your evasive maneuver and then you pulled over - almost sounds like you clipped the car but couldn't tell - any damage on your bike?

2. it looked like the other guys splitting were traveling at a pretty decent clip too through traffic too

Everyone needs to calm the hell down and take it easy when commuting - I'm new to this state and in NJ we had a fair bit of accidents as well but nothing like here and the biggest difference I can tell is that people drive at a seriously high rate of speed at all times across way more lanes of traffic. Listen to reggae or something in your helmet dude

Glad you're ok

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Old 09-01-2017, 12:43 PM   #23
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I see riders do that all the time and it freaks me out when I'm in a car behind them; I back WAY off in the HOV lane so I don't run them over should the worst occur.

In addition to hugging the left, of the HOV on a bike and slowing my delta with eyes GLUED to the traffic ahead on my right I'm also covering my brake which I only do in high traffic situations.

I realize I should ALWAYS cover my front brake but in truth I don't unless faced with a similar scenario to what is in the video.
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Old 09-02-2017, 06:17 AM   #24
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The thing about using a vehicle in front of you to act as a blocker, is that your field of vision ahead will be reduced, especially if you ride to the left of the lane to create a space cushion. And if the vehicle ahead of you does crash into a lane changer, you will likely have no escape path. AND, that 4 wheel vehicle can probably brake in less distance than you. Maybe if the vehicle was a reasonable distance in front of you this could work, but not if you are tailgating it.

If you are going to up your delta, and therefore your level of risk, at least up your level of defensiveness. Cover your front brake, ride to the left and have at least one eye on every wheel of every vehicle you pass, looking to see any side motion whatsoever of a turning wheel (wheels are quicker to spot first than a moving vehicle).

The biggest risk of speed is the faster you go, the more severity of injury if you crash. Don't do anything on the bike that won't allow for an escape path. If you don't have an escape path (braking, swerving or accelerating) than you probably shouldn't do it.
again I don't think everyone is being truthful to us/themselves. You all know damn well stopped non HOV lane right next to fast moving HOV lane happens ALL THE TIME. Continuing to yell about "safe-delta" is plain not being honest, you think? If you got a 30 mile commute where stopped non-HOV traffic right next to fast moving HOV is, your going to tell me you'll stay at a safe delta? I don't think so...

I'm saying be truthful, you all know dang well your going to be in the HOV lane on the far left so you can see far-ahead. Staying to the extreme-left of lane behind any vehicle, & making a conscious decision your going to use whatever road to the left is available if there's a sudden stop; regardless of cause is the way to go...?

enuf said...
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Old 09-02-2017, 07:01 AM   #25
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I get real paranoid anytime there's a gap!
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Old 09-02-2017, 07:38 AM   #26
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again I don't think everyone is being truthful to us/themselves. You all know damn well stopped non HOV lane right next to fast moving HOV lane happens ALL THE TIME. Continuing to yell about "safe-delta" is plain not being honest, you think? If you got a 30 mile commute where stopped non-HOV traffic right next to fast moving HOV is, your going to tell me you'll stay at a safe delta? I don't think so...

I'm saying be truthful, you all know dang well your going to be in the HOV lane on the far left so you can see far-ahead. Staying to the extreme-left of lane behind any vehicle, & making a conscious decision your going to use whatever road to the left is available if there's a sudden stop; regardless of cause is the way to go...?

enuf said...
I don't necessarily disagree with you, there are certainly times where one can go faster than a typical lane-splitting delta in a similar situation. Maybe even significantly faster if a big left hand shoulder exists. There is no one size fits all answer to that question of course.

However in the video from the OP, the rider was clearly going too fast for THAT condition. I'm assuming you agree with that.
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Old 09-02-2017, 09:28 AM   #27
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I don't necessarily disagree with you, there are certainly times where one can go faster than a typical lane-splitting delta in a similar situation. Maybe even significantly faster if a big left hand shoulder exists. There is no one size fits all answer to that question of course.

However in the video from the OP, the rider was clearly going too fast for THAT condition. I'm assuming you agree with that.
Of course.

Now we will of course hear from those that want to lane-split the stopped lane w/the speed-limit lane, along w/assorted gibberish.
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Old 09-02-2017, 02:50 PM   #28
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I propose that this incident is a warning to you.
Please take this to heart OP.

As others are saying, your delta is too high given the lack of space side to side. Your reaction to this incident was appropriate and saved you. Had the car made his move about a tenth of a second later you would have been toast.

I don't want to read a RIP thread about you.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:06 AM   #29
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1. speed delta

2. side of lane (but seriously... )

it costs you nothing to move far left. overestimation of speed/ability aside, this is an appalling choice you made. think about when actually splitting, most dangerous scenario is when there's a gap on one side and someone surprise lane-changes you.

you were in a massive surprise lane-change scenario right there and in the weakest lane position to defend against it. there is no good reason to be hugging stopped traffic when you have open space and emergency run-off area to the other side

3. expecting single occupant vehicles to not violate carpool lane
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Old 09-10-2017, 07:33 AM   #30
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Was there an on ramp to the frwy just prior to this close call? I always find that for the 1/2 mile or so after an on ramp there is often someone trying to wedge their way over to the HOV lane and I scan for it regularly because I know they're coming. If there is a gap in front of me I close it.

I'm not a proponent of the left side of the lane normally, especially if there is a concrete barrier. I prefer the right side because I will normally have a longer line of sight and I believe that my headlight will have a better chance of being seen through the side view mirror of the cars in the next lane over. Plus I feel like I'll have more room to react if needed. My speed delta would normally be lower than what was on your video so maybe if I was going to be clipping along like that the left side would be a better choice.

Lastly, while splitting I always have my index fingers on the front brake lever and clutch but maybe thats just a dirt bike thing. Glad it wasnt worse!!
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