BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum

Go Back   BARF - Bay Area Riders Forum > Moto > Crash Analysis


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-17-2017, 10:50 AM   #1
MeatPuppet
Meat popsicle
 
MeatPuppet's Avatar
 
AMA #3392204

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Foster City
Motorcycles: '19 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
Name: Rob
Angry Intersection close call

I nearly low-sided in the middle of the Hillsdale/S. Norfolk St intersection. As I approached the intersection at 35 mph, the light changed from green to yellow. "No problem, I'll just roll through," I thought. When I was smack in the middle of the intersection a Garda truck SMIDSY'd and pulled out from the gas station there. I applied maximum braking. My rear tire started to push to the right and screeched pretty loudly. After a split second panic I smoothly released both brakes and continued on my merry way. Probably shouldn't have flipped him off though.

Lessons learned:
  • Everybody that is pulled up to the road is potentially going to pull out without warning.
  • Max-breaking on a wet road is way different than dry.
  • Instead of flipping people off, drop a gear and disappear.
  • Pay even more attention at intersections, especially busy ones.
__________________
Uh, negative. I am a meat popsicle.

2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
AMA #3392204
MeatPuppet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 01:53 PM   #2
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
 
DataDan's Avatar
 
BARF Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2010 & 2014
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo
Motorcycles: Yamaha FJR1300
Name: Dan
for an excellent job on the brakes.

Can you confirm the details?

You were eastbound on Hillsdale Blvd here (Google Maps link), crossing the intersection with Norfolk St. The Garda truck was exiting the Shell station on the southeast corner, turning right from a driveway on Hillsdale also to go eastbound.
__________________
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
--Richard Feynman
DataDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-17-2017, 05:52 PM   #3
MeatPuppet
Meat popsicle
 
MeatPuppet's Avatar
 
AMA #3392204

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Foster City
Motorcycles: '19 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
Name: Rob
Quote:
Originally Posted by DataDan View Post
for an excellent job on the brakes.

Can you confirm the details?

You were eastbound on Hillsdale Blvd here (Google Maps link), crossing the intersection with Norfolk St. The Garda truck was exiting the Shell station on the southeast corner, turning right from a driveway on Hillsdale also to go eastbound.
That's it, yeah. Here's a picture of our positions. I'm red, he's white. When I got to the middle of the intersection he pulled out and almost went into my lane. He stopped moving over when I screeched.

__________________
Uh, negative. I am a meat popsicle.

2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
AMA #3392204
MeatPuppet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 08:39 AM   #4
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
 
DataDan's Avatar
 
BARF Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2010 & 2014
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo
Motorcycles: Yamaha FJR1300
Name: Dan
Once you entered the intersection, you were boxed in--no escape except with emergency braking. To avoid it, you would have had to identify the threat after you decided to cross but before reaching the limit line.

Had you seen the truck and not considered it a threat, or had you not noticed it before getting to the intersection?
__________________
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
--Richard Feynman
DataDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 11:26 AM   #5
MeatPuppet
Meat popsicle
 
MeatPuppet's Avatar
 
AMA #3392204

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Foster City
Motorcycles: '19 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
Name: Rob
Just before I got to the intersection I was scanning and noticed the front-half of the truck. I didn't consider him an overt threat, but kept watching him just in case. He didn't pull out until I was already in the intersection (about halfway through it). I think I could've stopped in the intersection, but decided that was a bad idea since the light would be turning green for S. Norfolk St. folks.

If you look at the Google Street View, you can see that the front-half of that vehicle would have been visible if his front tires were on the sidewalk. In street view, I would be placed right next to that red Subaru.
__________________
Uh, negative. I am a meat popsicle.

2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
AMA #3392204
MeatPuppet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2017, 07:34 PM   #6
budman
General Menace
 
budman's Avatar
 
AMA Life Member #203453
Highway Aviator
Founding Member
Top Percent Poster
Community Contributor + BB
Moto Junkie

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Palo Alto, Ca.
Motorcycles: A few here and there
Name: Budman
You mentioned SMIDSY. How did that apply or was it just a thought?
budman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 02:57 AM   #7
MeatPuppet
Meat popsicle
 
MeatPuppet's Avatar
 
AMA #3392204

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Foster City
Motorcycles: '19 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
Name: Rob
I may be using it wrong. Does it have to be a collision to be a SMIDSY? I'm almost certain he didn't see me.
__________________
Uh, negative. I am a meat popsicle.

2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
AMA #3392204
MeatPuppet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 03:17 AM   #8
tfkrocks
Veteran
 
tfkrocks's Avatar
 
AMA #3283492

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: East Bay
Motorcycles: 2013 Ninja 300, 2014 NC700X
Name: Rebecca
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatPuppet View Post
I may be using it wrong. Does it have to be a collision to be a SMIDSY? I'm almost certain he didn't see me.
I think this forum typically only uses SMIDSY in the context of the rider using the SMIDSY maneuver (weaving to grab attention) rather than to refer to an incident itself.
tfkrocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 07:30 AM   #9
DataDan
Mama says he's bona fide
 
DataDan's Avatar
 
BARF Mod Alumni
BARFie winner 2010 & 2014
Contributor ++++

Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: San Luis Obispo
Motorcycles: Yamaha FJR1300
Name: Dan
SMIDSY = "Sorry mate, I didn't see you". It refers to a crash where the driver looked but didn't see the motorcyclist. In the UK, where the term originated, it's usually on a rural road when a driver turns right from a side street on the rider's left (reverse directions for the US). In the US, we also include a crash between motorcycle and oncoming left-turner (the most frequent kind of 2-vehicle crash here).

Here, the OP is using it for another kind of "looked but did not see" crash, a right turn from the rider's right.

Brit instructor Duncan MacKillop popularized the "weave" as a countermeasure and calls it the "SIAM" for SMIDSY Identification and Avoidance Maneuver. He describes it in this video:


youtu.be/eqQBubilSXU

His analysis of motion camouflage and the looming effect and recommendation of the weave appeared first in a 2005 edition of the UK magazine Bike, which I summarized here in the 1Rider thread Traffic Tactics: Left-Turning Vehicles.

However, I would caution that while the weave may make you seen by the driver, it also may not. Don't let it interfere with preparations for evasive maneuvers. You must still be ready to brake or swerve, so get it over with while you still have attention and grip to spare.

I don't think the weave would have helped the OP's situation, and I wouldn't recommend using it here.
__________________
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
--Richard Feynman

Last edited by DataDan; 11-19-2017 at 07:37 AM..
DataDan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 10:23 AM   #10
splat
Veteran
 
splat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SoCal
Motorcycles: Mostly red ones
Name: Mark
How fast were you going? The intersection is roughly 100ft, effectively it'll only take you one second to travel 51ft at a rate of 35mph.

Your biggest threat in this instance may have also been sitting there as a left hand turner also wanting to "roll through the yellow" too.

You need to remember that you are invisible to most drivers, even if you make direct eye contact. Drivers are not conditioned to look for anyone but cars and trucks. That means that often pedestrians, bicyclists, joggers, and motorcyclists are usually a very brief thought, and usually only after the fact.


youtu.be/vJG698U2Mvo
__________________
[this space for rent]
splat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 11:14 AM   #11
MeatPuppet
Meat popsicle
 
MeatPuppet's Avatar
 
AMA #3392204

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Foster City
Motorcycles: '19 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
Name: Rob
Oh man, I haven't seen that video in years. I was going 35-ish. Left turns at that intersection only have arrows. It's unlikely they would take a left on a red arrow, but I watch them anyway.

I'm very aware that I'm as visible as 100 ninjas. I wear as much high-vis as I can (which isn't that much really), SIAM (anti-SMIDSY wiggle), and whatever else I can do to get attention without being a jerk. However, I don't for one second think that because I think I've been seen that I actually have. Almost learned that lesson the hard way at the same damn intersection - a truck took a right hand turn with me onto Hillsdale then proceed to cross two lanes and stop diagonally 20 feet in front of me.
__________________
Uh, negative. I am a meat popsicle.

2019 Yamaha Tracer 900 GT
AMA #3392204
MeatPuppet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 12:54 PM   #12
dowlinginchico
Home Wrecker
 
dowlinginchico's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pleasant Hill
Motorcycles: DRZ400SM, KTM 990 SD, Ducati 848 SF
Name: Derrick
Yellow to me means slow way down and be super vigilant. Caution. Yellow to someone who is stopped at a red light, or other, means rev your engines and get ready to go.

Just another thought to ponder, even if unlikely, maybe the truck saw the yellow and thought you would be stopping? Maybe you decreased your speed when you saw the yellow and the truck picked up on that slow down and thought you were stopping? ...Just another angle...
__________________
Never trust anything in a cage.

Last edited by dowlinginchico; 11-22-2017 at 01:00 PM..
dowlinginchico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2017, 01:00 PM   #13
dowlinginchico
Home Wrecker
 
dowlinginchico's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Pleasant Hill
Motorcycles: DRZ400SM, KTM 990 SD, Ducati 848 SF
Name: Derrick
EDIT: On my daily commute I have a couple accident "hot spots" identified. This could be because of many factors such as blind curves, fast drivers are typical, bumpy off camber roads, lights that change too fast, etc.

If you were I, I would take special care around this intersection in the future.
__________________
Never trust anything in a cage.
dowlinginchico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 07:20 AM   #14
ScottRNelson
Mr. Dual Sport Rider
 
ScottRNelson's Avatar
 
Founding Member
Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Meridian, ID
Motorcycles: Honda XR650L, KTM 1090 Adv R
Name: =Username
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatPuppet View Post
  • Everybody that is pulled up to the road is potentially going to pull out without warning.
You have to do this all the time on the street if you want to avoid close calls. Watch the front wheels. If they're moving, the vehicle is a definite threat and must be dealt with.

One more thing I would have done in this circumstance - as soon as I saw the truck - would be to flip on my high beam until passing the truck. Not just blink the thing, but turn it on and leave it on. That seems to help people notice me that might not have before.
__________________
Scott R. Nelson - Meridian, Idaho
ScottRNelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2017, 08:03 AM   #15
bmwbob51
BMWBOB
 
bmwbob51's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hollister
Motorcycles: 2014 BMW 1200GS 74 Norton Commando
Name: Bob
Just assume you're invisable!
bmwbob51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.