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Shorai LFX Lithium-Iron Battery Charger

Dr_SLO

Dr_SLO

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Location
The Hills
Moto(s)
Aprilia Tuono V4 Factory - Previous steads; R1 (x2),TL1000S, ZX6-R (x2), GPZ500S
Name
Stefan
Howdy Folks and a belated Happy New Year to you all!

Foolishly whilst away on vacation for the last four weeks I decided to leave my bike standing with the battery in it in the cold and damp. Needless to say that after several attempts and a few choice words the bike wouldn't start. Quite disappointed as I'm itching to ride.

Does anyone know if there are any local stores that carry Shorai LFX Lithium-Iron Battery Chargers or does a kind soul have one I can borrow to charge it up this evening?

Thanks folks!
 
did you leave something on? i've left my lithium phosphate batteries hooked up for months straight with no tender: no problem.

if the battery is drained flat you may be in for a very unhappy revelation.
 
My understanding (which may be QUITE wrong :p ) is that you can use a regular trickle charger so long as it doesn't have the pulsing de-sulfating mode.

From Shorai:

Q. Should I use a battery tender?
A.The short answer is "only if you really need to". Most powersports enthusiasts have gotten used to hooking up a tender to their lead-acid batteries, all the time. Shorai LFX have much slower self-discharge than the best lead acid do (1/6 to 1/7, on average), they do not sulfate as capacity drops, and they are the ultimate "deep cycle" battery, which means that they can still crank your vehicle even if the remaining capacity is quite low. Therefore most riders will not need to use a tender at all. Even a charger or tender uses energy you have to pay for, and there is always the possibility that a charger or tender can fail in some way, so if not really needed the best practice is to not use one.
A fully charged LFX can sit for a year or more and still retain adequate starting capacity, without damaging the battery. As such, any vehicle which has no current flowing when the key is OFF should never need a tender. At most it should be charged every 6 to 12 months, depending on the average storage temperature (cool storage is much better for any battery). Many older vehicles and most dirtbike/atv fall into this category.
Newer vehicles may have a significant draw even when the key is OFF, to maintain clocks and computers, etc. In this case we expect that a few hours of riding per month will be all that is needed to avoid tending. If you know that you will go a number of weeks or months without riding, you can either attach a tender, or disconnect the negative cable from the battery. In any case, during storage you may use the voltage chart above and an accurate voltmeter, and consider recharging when the battery is around the 50% capacity remaining mark, or above.
Click to expand...
 
Catalyst Reaction is a dealer and may have chargers. I think also the Motor Cafe.
 
I'm wondering if the op did that technique where you turn the lights on first, to "preheat" the battery ?

Isn't that how you are supposed to treat these batteries ?
 
Technically, lithium/ion batteries have very different charging requirments than lead/acid batteries. I'm surprised that they seem to last awhile in bikes or cars.

As for the question of whether the OP left anything on, many bikes have a surpising amount of parasitic draw even when the ignition is turned off. It's bike dependent.

And FYI, if a lithium/ion battery, no matter how healthy, is allowed to fall below a certain voltage level, it's then toast and no amount of charging or wishing and hoping will bring it to life. It can even happen to a brand new lithium/ion battery. Let the voltage drop below a certain point and you're off to the store to buy a new one.
 
auntiebling said:
did you leave something on? i've left my lithium phosphate batteries hooked up for months straight with no tender: no problem.

if the battery is drained flat you may be in for a very unhappy revelation.
Click to expand...

^This - if it's 0% charge, even if you charge it back up, it's not gonna recover. Needs to be replaced.

If you had even a little charge, did you try the trick of just leaving the battery on for a minute before firing up the engine? That's what I have to do with my Shorai, when it's cold outside.
 
ST Guy said:
Technically, lithium/ion batteries have very different charging requirments than lead/acid batteries. I'm surprised that they seem to last awhile in bikes or cars.

As for the question of whether the OP left anything on, many bikes have a surpising amount of parasitic draw even when the ignition is turned off. It's bike dependent.

And FYI, if a lithium/ion battery, no matter how healthy, is allowed to fall below a certain voltage level, it's then toast and no amount of charging or wishing and hoping will bring it to life. It can even happen to a brand new lithium/ion battery. Let the voltage drop below a certain point and you're off to the store to buy a new one.
Click to expand...

Lithium-Iron is not Lithium Ion. Very different batteries.

Charger wise as long as it doesn't have a desulfation mode it's fine. This includes Battery Tender(tm) along with a lot of other chargers.
 
Thanks for the input folks. Moto Cafe had a charger in stock so I'll try that out tonight.

I did try the trick of leaving the ignition on to draw current and it did turn over more briskly but there was not enough juice. The R1 headlamps don't illuminate until the engine starts so I'm not sure how much current gets draw by the instrument panel. I presume very little. When it's been cold in the past the engine needs to be turned over a few time to get enough juice flowing through the battery, which worked fine.

I feel the ST Guy might be right about parasites in the bike. It shouldn't have drained that much.
 
protokultur said:
^This - if it's 0% charge, even if you charge it back up, it's not gonna recover. Needs to be replaced.

If you had even a little charge, did you try the trick of just leaving the battery on for a minute before firing up the engine? That's what I have to do with my Shorai, when it's cold outside.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that if you drop below 10% charge, you'll likely not be able to save the battery.
 
'Just did some checking on Lithium Iron vs. Lithium Ion. Lithium iron is a lithium ion battery. Lithium Ion is the general, umbrella term for all Lithium based batteries. The exact chemistry will vary, but the various types share much in common. If you read the charging requirements of lithium ion batteries (in general), you'll find that none of them like to be overcharged and that charging one while there is a load on it (like they bike's charging system charging it when the bike is running), is generally contraindicated. Lithium ion batteries in general also do not like float charges. Charge them up to max and stop any charging after that. And I just don't see motorcycle or any other vehicle charging systems doing that.

Obviously, though, it can be gotten away with. Perhaps this is because the max voltage of a "12 volt" system lithium ion battery is around 14.3 volts and most motorcycle charging systems either don't exceed that by much or don't even get that high. (14.4 volts being the touted "ideal" charging voltage.)

Perhaps Shorai has some sort of smart technology built into the battery to work around the shortcomings of conventional lead/acid charging systems. But even they say that using one of their own specialized chargers is best. (But obviously, you can't do this if you're out riding.)
 
I've had a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery (Maviryk, using typical CR123a cells) for over 2 years. I have managed to drain it to the point that I can tell on more than a couple occasions. I can't say for sure that it cranks as hard as it initially did, but it's useable for sure.
 
I talked to he prez of shorai about how to charge their batteries. The problem is that their batteries are actually smaller batteries in series. If you dont use their charger, you'll get an improper/unbalance charge in some batteries vs others. If you charge for too long you'll overcharge and damage some of the batteries. Their charger uses a special port to plug in and hence can stop charging one battery while continuing to charge the others.
 
EEL said:
I talked to he prez of shorai about how to charge their batteries. The problem is that their batteries are actually smaller batteries in series. If you dont use their charger, you'll get an improper/unbalance charge in some batteries vs others. If you charge for too long you'll overcharge and damage some of the batteries. Their charger uses a special port to plug in and hence can stop charging one battery while continuing to charge the others.
Click to expand...

Interesting. And therein lies the rub. For use in any motorsport vehicle you're going to be charging them all the time if the vehicle is running. And those charging system are designed for lead/acid batteries, not lithium/ion batteries.

Oh, and even conventional lead acid batteries are small batteries in series. A fully charged single lead/acid cell puts out a bit over 2 volts.
 
You have a very good point.

What I dont know and cant answer is if the amps generated can in fact damage the battery over the long run.

I never thought about asking him that.

Again you are right about conventional batteries
The good thing about conventional batteries is that by their inherent nature, they have a negative feedback loop that slows down the overcharging in each cell. So they will balance themselves regardless. Standard batteries are so rock solid, its hard to justify a shorai unless you really want the weight savings.
 
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EEL said:
Standard batteries are so rock solid, its hard to justify a shorai unless you really want the weight savings.
Click to expand...

Not hard to justify actually - no need to use tender anymore and better cold starting than a Pb-acid battery. And the extra cost really isn't that much, for my bike it's $140 for an LFX14 vs. $100 for the Yuasa, both 220 CCA.

2 years on mine (LFX18) and no issues.
 
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