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I dream of LeMons

auntiebling

auntiebling

megalomaniacal troglodyte
Super Moderator
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Location
atop the parapet
Moto(s)
.
I dream of lemons...
 

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Plus it's ten days away. Always comes up too soon. I really want to do it someday.
 
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auntiebling said:
Have no $, thus dream
And time. No time.
Click to expand...

Time is the biggest issue. The teams are going to want to vet you prior to the race. That’s the best time to get to know them anyway. Money enters the discussion when you want to drive the car. Then they want to have you a) invest in the car, b) pay a portion of the cost of the event.

byke said:
Plus it's ten days away. Always comes up too soon. I really want to do it something.
Click to expand...

Preparing for LeMons is an all year deal. Most teams race multiple races, and some in multiple series.
 
Maybe a less committed barf team then? I gots the space and tools, vehicle lift, tube bending stuff, welding stuff, etc.
 
You have a leg up on many due to your tools. A big part of bringing someone into the team is not only their personality, but what they can bring (tools, toys, a place to store the car.

The best way to get into lemons is to join a team to learn the ins-&-outs. One may eventually want to create their own team.

Starting from scratch is much more expensive than many realize. The $500 car is misleading. Most teams will have thousands of dollars into the car. The $500 is supposed to be the purchase price of the car. The budget for safety related items is (almost) unlimited.

Then there are the consumables required to survive a weekend. Tires (8+), brake pads / rotors, bearings, engine (!), etc.

I joined a fully formed team and still spent almost $2k getting the car ready and in race fees/consumables.

Another time a group of us started our own team and began to prep a donor-car, and as the cost became apparent people started dropping like flies.

The next time I do it, I’ll find an opportunity to pay to ‘arrive-and-drive’ to get a feel for the team before committing as a a member financially invested in the team.
 
I gotta think the budget can be kept in control with some thrifty efforts? Kinda sounds like it's getting too big and departing from the original spirit of the event? I just think it'd be super rad to finish.
 
Question about Lemons...

1. Does some team dominate every year?
2. Does some particular kind of car dominate?
 
Go join the LeMons forum and lurk a bit. LeMons isn’t what MOST people think it is. There are similar series’ that may be a better fit for what you think you want to do.

There are a lot of creative ways to keep the costs down. But starting from scratch is still going to be a few thousand dollars. The cage alone is going to eat over a grand. Then there is the race seat and harness. I think they require a fuel cell now too.

If the judges feel that you aren’t being truthful about costs, or if you show up with a spec Miata with a $500 Bill of Sale, you’re going to be penalized.

Yes, in some years a particular team has dominated the races they entered. When it comes to the particular car, there isn’t a ringer. When I first raced Lemons, E30’s were frowned upon by the judges. Now, not so much.
 
I've got enough .120 wall 1.75" dom tubing to get a cage done, happy to use it without passing on the cost.

Pat, if you're in, I'm super in!
 
I'm down. I can contribute some money and can cook n stuff during the race. I'm an okay wrench and not the worst driver.
 
Little cash/wrench/drive is perfect across however many people, is it 4-5? Buttonwillow on Sept 28-29?
 
lemons has a youtube channel with race summaries going back several years and indeed lots of real world costs broken down on the forum. $5k minimum to get a car ready and plan on DNF'ing for several races.

i don't really want to try to buy into another team because i wouldn't feel comfortable potentially damaging someone else's pride and joy no matter how ugly it is.

what i'm really after is a venue to drive that audi i posted above (tim, you moved this or did i imagine posting it elsewhere?) and re-powering it with a goldwing engine.... because a 5 cylinder turbo audi is sooooooo cliche
 
byke said:
I've got enough .120 wall 1.75" dom tubing to get a cage done, happy to use it without passing on the cost.

Pat, if you're in, I'm super in!
Click to expand...

Probably should go see one, have a look around.

It would be a fun field trip, if nothing else
 
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Have always, always wanted to do/be involved with a LeMons race. This thread has brought reality up front and center.... All my spare (and not-spare) dollahs and time seem to go to a track or bike for one thing or another.

So I shall live vicariously....LeMon-on!
 
SM610 said:
Probably should go see one, have a look around.

It would be a fun field trip, if nothing else
Click to expand...

Yeahhhhh I suppose that's the responsible thing to do. Weekend after this coming is t-hill..
 
I own two lemons cars and provide arrive and drive services for races more or less Nationwide. If you are serious about trying it, I have a car that is specifically built for new racers experimenting with the series

There are a group of people who tend to do well in the local races. They are proficient because of their organization and understanding of what it takes to win an endurance race. If you're trying to win right off the bat, this isn't the series for you. Lemons is one of the most difficult series to score an overall victory in (I have done so ten times in approximately ten years of managing teams).

Luckily, there are classes and other awards to win, which recognize the effort people put in to these cars.

A few bits of advice:
Unless you're a professional cage builder, don't build your own cage. I don't care how good of a welder you are. Cage design has many facets, and the rules governing a Lemons cage are different than other sanctioning bodies. If you're familiar with an SCCA or NASA cage, then go ahead. Otherwise, think twice.

It will cost $4000-$6000 to build a car. There are expenses beyond the car and cage. You need a proper seat. You need proper belts. You need to do proper prep on your car. Read the rule book carefully. Wheel bearings, brakes, tie rod ends, ball joints and similar parts are exempt from the $500 purchase price. This is because you need to make sure you don't lose a wheel and kill someone as it crashes through their windshield. Your seat can save your life, or kill you depending on installation. Your seat belts need to be high quality and easy to adjust and fasten. You need new, well installed fuel lines.

There are other expenses that come with the race. You need a HANS type device to share between your team. This is a little tricky because they are sized. If you have drastic differential in body type, you need more than one. You need a race suit for each driver. This is your last line of defense between you and a car fire. Don't cheap out. You need a helmet, which is a different type than a MC helmet. Just like bike helmets, there are basic standards, and then there are things like comfort that will factor in to your overall experience.

When you race you need a trailer, either rental or own. You should not plan to drive to car to and from the track. You need fuel cans. You need a way to buy fuel and bring it to the track. Likely in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 gallons. You need cans to fuel the car quickly and safely, without spilling everywhere. You need spare parts, because things will break.

You need tires. Tires are budget exempt. You can buy cheap tires, but they will chunk and fail when you push them on track. You need two sets of wheels minimum. Three sets if you want plan to caro rain tires.

There are many many many other needs, but these are basics.

With all that said, go for it. Read the rules, do real research, and spend all the money you can afford on safety equipment and brakes.
 
I may know of a turnkey lemons car for sale in the bay, it is a dialed in veteran of the series,including (or not) enclosed trailer and parts. Team is inactive this year, car is not actively for sale, but likely could be.
Pm me for more details if serious as I can't post it publicly.
 
Jalopyshoppe said:
I own two lemons cars and provide arrive and drive services for races more or less Nationwide. If you are serious about trying it, I have a car that is specifically built for new racers experimenting with the series

There are a group of people who tend to do well in the local races. They are proficient because of their organization and understanding of what it takes to win an endurance race. If you're trying to win right off the bat, this isn't the series for you. Lemons is one of the most difficult series to score an overall victory in (I have done so ten times in approximately ten years of managing teams).

Luckily, there are classes and other awards to win, which recognize the effort people put in to these cars.

A few bits of advice:
Unless you're a professional cage builder, don't build your own cage. I don't care how good of a welder you are. Cage design has many facets, and the rules governing a Lemons cage are different than other sanctioning bodies. If you're familiar with an SCCA or NASA cage, then go ahead. Otherwise, think twice.

It will cost $4000-$6000 to build a car. There are expenses beyond the car and cage. You need a proper seat. You need proper belts. You need to do proper prep on your car. Read the rule book carefully. Wheel bearings, brakes, tie rod ends, ball joints and similar parts are exempt from the $500 purchase price. This is because you need to make sure you don't lose a wheel and kill someone as it crashes through their windshield. Your seat can save your life, or kill you depending on installation. Your seat belts need to be high quality and easy to adjust and fasten. You need new, well installed fuel lines.

There are other expenses that come with the race. You need a HANS type device to share between your team. This is a little tricky because they are sized. If you have drastic differential in body type, you need more than one. You need a race suit for each driver. This is your last line of defense between you and a car fire. Don't cheap out. You need a helmet, which is a different type than a MC helmet. Just like bike helmets, there are basic standards, and then there are things like comfort that will factor in to your overall experience.

When you race you need a trailer, either rental or own. You should not plan to drive to car to and from the track. You need fuel cans. You need a way to buy fuel and bring it to the track. Likely in the neighborhood of 50 to 100 gallons. You need cans to fuel the car quickly and safely, without spilling everywhere. You need spare parts, because things will break.

You need tires. Tires are budget exempt. You can buy cheap tires, but they will chunk and fail when you push them on track. You need two sets of wheels minimum. Three sets if you want plan to caro rain tires.

There are many many many other needs, but these are basics.

With all that said, go for it. Read the rules, do real research, and spend all the money you can afford on safety equipment and brakes.
Click to expand...

That's some great info right there.

I have a good friend that will be driving at the Thunderhill race. PM me if you want to meet / talk with him. He's been racing Lemons since its inception.
 
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