Options honing gun skills w airsoft, lasertag, etc.?

Anyone have experiencing owning & using nonlethal firearms to hone firearms, cqc, defensive, shtf skills safely?

Id like to practice in a way that is as close to realistic as possible actual shooting in varied scenarios, with another person, without using live rounds for safety.

Wondering what options are best ( and affordable ) such as buying & using laser tag, airsoft, paintball or other types of faux firearms.? And what types tend to be most realistic, and made durably with accurate shot placement?

I have experience shooting a real gun, a mossberg maverick shotgun using birdshot, buckshot and slugs.

And any recommendations on best places to buy from?

I am not experienced in any of this.

What are you trying to improve, there's a host of skills available.

Manual of arms skills are one. That's basically knowing how your weapon works, knowing where the safety is, clearing malfunctions, doing so under stress, etc. I don't know if the airsoft guns are accurate at that level.

There's basic marksmanship skills. Holding the weapon, trigger control, sight pickup and picture. The airsoft can help in some of those, I don't know how good their triggers are (probably not very). When doing rapid shooting its important to know where your trigger resets, to habitually squeeze the trigger vs just jerk it back (again, under stress), etc.

I'm sure you could use an airsoft gun to help practice safe handling. Finger off the trigger, muzzle control, moving in a safe manner. But that's best done with someone watching you, you may not realize when you do something wrong.

I don't know how much airsoft guns weigh in comparison to a real firearm. Weight matters, being used to it in your hand, the momentum of the gun as you move it around.

Honing assumes you already have skills and you are looking to improve or maintain proficiency. Many skills can be honed using props. Each skill will have a select choice of props which are appropriate.
I have a Crossman BB gun and a trap target set up in my shop that I use to maintain my targeting, body and hand posture and breathing.

Some of the guys I talk to say dry fire with your actual unloaded firearm is the best drill. Second is range time with a shot timer to actually have quantifiable results so you can see if the work you are doing is showing dividends. Now this is mostly for defensive pistol stuff you mentioned shooting a shotgun so not sure if you where asking about that specifically or just to mention that you are familiar with shotguns.

Training classes would be good also you can take notes and learn drills that you can take home and use.

Sharxfan said:

Some of the guys I talk to say dry fire with your actual unloaded firearm is the best drill.

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Yea, I've heard that too.

Just the idea of racking the slide on a pistol over and over and over just makes that's very tedious, very quickly.

I just don't know of a better way to do it though.

I'll also say this, not sure if it's germane at all.

But, back in the day when I played, there was a very distinct difference between playing paint ball and laser tag. I don't know if this applies to air soft at all. But the key differentiator was simply there's no fear in laser tag. People just running around, standing in corridors, blinking away at each other trying to get a hit.

In paintball, paintball hurts. I found myself cowering behind the smallest of obstacles, trying to be even smaller, as the THWACK THWACK THWACK of paintballs impacted around me. There was one encounter between myself and another in neighboring "fox holes". It looked like any other scene you've seen in a movie, borderline blind firing over the berm at each other (we're not supposed to blind fire in paint ball).

HOWEVER, there have been these "laser rounds" things that you can put in a pistol and "fire" at a target. I guess it's like a combination of a Snap Cap and an LED. Those are supposed to be good for trigger control and grip.

Thanks for all the responses.

My main reason for being interested in exploring something like i mentioned, is so i can develop some skill in using a firearm in action relative to other people trying to snuff my, or others I care about, life away. Ive shot at a few gun ranges, maybe 5 times in Petaluma, a few times in Richmond and once in I think it was Concord.

The Petaluma range is not well designed imo - just wooden pallets ( and we have to trek out a ways to a back area the range has a stack of wooden pallets and manually lug the wooden pallets back to where we are shooting and set them up leaning against remants of old shot out pallets. They fall over sometimes so we have to wait for ceasefire to go reset them upright and eventually shoot at them again. Wastes a lot of time, energy and overall doesnt seem very well thought out. But its a range at least.

The Richmond one is a fair bit better imo. Attentive range safety persons are present and in my experience friendly and helpful. They already have preset paper target frames set up in location we shoot at, so only need to walk from our shooting bench to the target to hang the target paper then back to bench to shoot.

But just repeatedly shooting at static paper targets at a set distance gets old pretty quick. Want to train holding, aiming, shooting accurately ( as much as possible with a shotgun which is all I own currently ) at other moving objects which are trying to hit me and not get shot themselves. For more realistic experience & skill building.

The Richmond range does have a moving and shooting at static target course but its costs a bit of money and have to pay for and take another course before that one to possibly even join it.

So figure maybe something like airsoft, plastic pellet guns, etc may be a way to accomplish some of this with only the initial $50 or so expense for the fake firearm and pellets, as long as I can get a friends to do it with me.?

You may want to check into USPSA/IDPA/GSSF matches you may have to look at NV as not sure if there are any in Cali I know someone here used to do a lot of GSSF comps. These are competition style shoots but they simulate the stress of an encounter via timed sections with random starts, movement, reloading, strong/weak hand shooting and target discrimination. Most of them are friendly events with helpful people. I became a malfunction master at my first match because I hadn't done proper magazine maintenance prior so had FTF and FTEs all day long with the added stress of being a noob. It was a great time and I went back quite a few more times until shoulder surgery then Covid.

Also look for beginner classes in your weapon of choice whether it is carbine or pistol. Dry fire will also help you diagnose if you are flinching before the bang and other things you can work on at home.

I am not sure how much paintball and laser tag transfer over but I do know we used to own military peeps that came to play paintball with us so maybe it doesn't translate as well.

There is not much practicing involved with using a shotgun as a self defense weapon. You basically point it in the general direction of where you want to shoot and hope you don't kill someone in the next room. If you shoot indoors at night, you will be blind and deaf as will be whoever else is in the room. During the day, you will only be deaf. If outdoors, the best defense is to run away.

Sharxfan said:

You may want to check into USPSA/IDPA/GSSF matches

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From operating a firearm perspective, these matches are pretty useful. It's just you and the timer and, frankly, all of the stress is self imposed (you could care less about the timer). But, most don't, and the timer adds a kink into your smooth operation. They also do a really good job of reinforcing safe gun handling. You know it's a stressful situation when the buzzer goes off, you draw your weapon and the first thing you do is eject your magazine into the dirt. Better to happen at the range than at home.

dravnx said:

There is not much practicing involved with using a shotgun as a self defense weapon.

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That's the myth, but not necessarily the truth of it.

It's not difficult for a shotgun, particularly a new shotgun, to get bound up if not cycled properly. Shotguns jam and misfeed just like everything else. Shot placement still matters with a shotgun. Tunnel vision is still a "thing" with a shotgun. All of these are better mitigated through practice and training in advance.

If you're serious about this kind of thing, you should also look in to force on force training. This kind of training not only puts you against other people (using things like simunitions, which is like a mini-paintball for a pistol), but also into shoot/don't shoot scenarios. I have not done these, I understand it can be very stressful.

berth said:

From operating a firearm perspective, these matches are pretty useful. It's just you and the timer and, frankly, all of the stress is self imposed (you could care less about the timer). But, most don't, and the timer adds a kink into your smooth operation. They also do a really good job of reinforcing safe gun handling. You know it's a stressful situation when the buzzer goes off, you draw your weapon and the first thing you do is eject your magazine into the dirt. Better to happen at the range than at home.

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I have never dropped a mag but have been creative with other malfunctions. Gun safety is serious at a match you can get a DQ for sweeping your own toes with the muzzle. On average I have seen a DQ maybe every 3 matches even experienced guys have gotten a DQ for a moments lack of attention it really makes you up your gun safety game.

OP, if you do actually go to a match you will get hooked. everyone I have met at a match has been helpful and friendly. When I had malfunctions that first time everyone pitched in to help diagnose it. Good peeps and good times. I need to get some practice in and then I am going to head back and do some more matches. Unfortunately I am in the boonies and the closest match is an hour away.

One thing I learned is mark your mags so you can identify which mag is which it helps in troubleshooting possible issues. I put a varying number of dots on each mag so I can identify if it is a particular mag or not. Also gun maintenance is paramount make sure it is clean and runs well you don't want to have issues on match day.

Let us know if you need more info on training. I don't do many classes but I do have a private range so I get a little extra trigger time.

When I was shooting USPSA, I'd use an airsoft gun in my garage to practice commands, drawing, safe handling and rapid target acquisition. I'd say it definitely helped.

wilit said:

When I was shooting USPSA, I'd use an airsoft gun in my garage to practice commands, drawing, safe handling and rapid target acquisition. I'd say it definitely helped.

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If he decides to do that then I would also get a competition timer it will help with comps and he can compare times to see if he is improving.

Sharxfan said:

OP, if you do actually go to a match you will get hooked. everyone I have met at a match has been helpful and friendly. When I had malfunctions that first time everyone pitched in to help diagnose it. Good peeps and good times.

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This has been my limited experience as well.

Even if you don't want to shoot, you can go to a match and see how things work. They never turn down folks willing to police the range after a round is run.

My indirect introduction to this was back in the mid-80s. There was a lady at work. I'd say 40-50's. She was little, 5 foot. She was the only person I ever saw do numeric data entry using the top row of the keyboard, instead of the keypad.

This little lady was doing weekly matches with a 1911.

And there was never any of that BS about "don't mess with her!" or any of that other nonsense. She talked about matches the same we she'd talk about cross stitch. Just a nice lady with a hobby.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDfwyUgtjg

Airsoft is great for training.

Also check out simunition.
https://simunition.com/en/

You can always take a basic pistol, shotgun or rifle class near you.

I made a pretty sweet action course in the garage with some of the wifes old "favorite" cookie tins and a Gas Blow Back SIG thats almost identical to my P229. You can develop some quick reflexes and muscle memory but nothing replaces actual trigger time.

I could swear I've seen a video of something like this somewhere. But it's been a long time.

That said, the idea of a zillion air soft pellets scattered in the garage, I detect potential unhappiness from my wife.

berth said:

I could swear I've seen a video of something like this somewhere. But it's been a long time.

That said, the idea of a zillion air soft pellets scattered in the garage, I detect potential unhappiness from my wife.

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Make pellet traps I don't think with airsoft it would be that hard could maybe even use cardboard boxes to make traps.

Critter said:

... Gas Blow Back SIG thats almost identical to my P229.

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I've got one of those green gas P226 replicas, fun little toy but the accuracy was terrible.

On the original topic I'm going to claim this is just like emergency braking training where you're better off than the person that doesn't do it, but no guarantee you will put that practice into use when it's needed in real life. Only professionals drill hard enough to get past bad habits, while the rest of us need to be satisfied that we're in a better position than the criminal element in terms of training. I only know about MSF and dirt riding courses, but those were infinitely better than learning on my own - would think firearms courses are the same.

Heh, I just watched this video by Garand Thumb on the subject of using airsoft for training.

[youtube]ECGxVlh4kFY[/youtube]

Completely agree with him regarding the limitations. With that said, I keep an airsoft Glock 19 (GBB) and a can of green gas in the living room (no BBs anywhere around) and use it as dry-fire practice on my TV (see bad guy, shoot bad guy). If you're just an ordinary joe (not an active warfighter or active LEO) there's value in airsoft training (reps is reps).