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File this under WTF:

chiefs problem. only know about our local fire protection district, but according to our new chief, firefighters are challenging by nature (man-boys), and require no nonsense management. he came in very iron fist, but the guys seem to respect that.

only other agency i deal with is cal fire. they are equally no nonsense, full discipline.

maybe there aren’t enough important incidents if SF to keep their minds focused on why they are there in the first place. not enough to do? public safety is an afterthought? bored and fucking around at the station? dunno.
 
That is a true :wtf story.
 
I posted this in a moment rage. Yeah, rage. It just reminded me of how SFFD handled their shit when drunk, alcoholic driver Michael Quinn slammed into Jack Frazier. I don't know how Mr. Frazier is doing today, 11years this month after the indecent, but it still makes my blood boil whenever I read about 'good 'ol boy' clicks and the shit they get up to.

Sorry, not sorry.
 
* cliques
I read about 'good 'ol boy' clicks and the shit they get up to.
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yeah I think good ol boys club must be a part of this

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littlebeast said:
chiefs problem. only know about our local fire protection district, but according to our new chief, firefighters are challenging by nature (man-boys), and require no nonsense management. he came in very iron fist, but the guys seem to respect that.
Click to expand...

Funny description. :laughing Although I think the word is not "problem" but "chief's FAULT". I think however the department in this city is huge, so the chief cannot watch over each particular person.

the news however has had links about the SFFD over the recent (5-10) years. a chief with domestic abuse accusation, a battalion chief with assault at a restaurant. :dunno

The only problem I have is if you gonna talk about where people's tax money is disappearing, well maybe because of City settlements lawsuits?

littlebeast said:
maybe there aren’t enough important incidents if SF to keep their minds focused on why they are there in the first place. not enough to do? public safety is an afterthought? bored and fucking around at the station? dunno.
Click to expand...
I'm sure a part of "not having big enough incidents" has played a role... there are some big :wtf WTF ones however :wow
 
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littlebeast said:
chiefs problem. only know about our local fire protection district, but according to our new chief, firefighters are challenging by nature (man-boys), and require no nonsense management. he came in very iron fist, but the guys seem to respect that.

only other agency i deal with is cal fire. they are equally no nonsense, full discipline.

maybe there aren’t enough important incidents if SF to keep their minds focused on why they are there in the first place. not enough to do? public safety is an afterthought? bored and fucking around at the station? dunno.
Click to expand...
I have a lot of contact with this area of The City. It isn't that at all. Now one thing to remember is that like 90% of SFFD calls these days are medical, not like when my Grandfather was pulling roasted corpses out of burnt buildings in the Tenderloin all the time.

So the work dynamic is very different in SF.

Unions are Unions though.
 
Eldritch said:
I have a lot of contact with this area of The City. It isn't that at all. Now one thing to remember is that like 90% of SFFD calls these days are medical, not like when my Grandfather was pulling roasted corpses out of burnt buildings in the Tenderloin all the time.

So the work dynamic is very different in SF.

Unions are Unions though.
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Bad Unions are bad. There is no 'right' answer or cure for the persistent, protectionist, self-serving rot that is prevalent in organizations like the SFPOA or the SFFF Local. Fighting words, I know: I have seen personally how the SFPD covers their own, regardless of how dangerous or unhinged one of their LEOs might be.

That's enough from me.
 
There are good people and bad people in this world and some of them are police or firemen.
 
dravnx said:
There are good people and bad people in this world and some of them are police or firemen.
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Too true.

There doesn't appear to be anything that guarantees that somebody isn't a bad person, whether it's education, money, family, looks, etc.

Nobody should be ruled out just because of some factor like one of those, they often hide in plain sight.
 
Eldritch said:
I have a lot of contact with this area of The City. It isn't that at all. Now one thing to remember is that like 90% of SFFD calls these days are medical, not like when my Grandfather was pulling roasted corpses out of burnt buildings in the Tenderloin all the time.

So the work dynamic is very different in SF.

Unions are Unions though.
Click to expand...
the vast majority of most (if not all) FD’s calls are medical. i suspect cal fire is the same, but i haven’t seen their state-wide numbers.
 
AbsolutEnduser said:
* cliques

yeah I think good ol boys club must be a part of this

----


Funny description. :laughing Although I think the word is not "problem" but "chief's FAULT". I think however the department in this city is huge, so the chief cannot watch over each particular person.

the news however has had links about the SFFD over the recent (5-10) years. a chief with domestic abuse accusation, a battalion chief with assault at a restaurant. :dunno

The only problem I have is if you gonna talk about where people's tax money is disappearing, well maybe because of City settlements lawsuits?


I'm sure a part of "not having big enough incidents" has played a role... there are some big :wtf WTF ones however :wow
Click to expand...
no clue where the failure is, but my point was - chief’s problem to solve. when we hired our new chief, i was on the interview board. we had a bumper crop of candidates, many from BA jurisdictions, and with the exception of 2 dudes who were kinda soft, they all had a pretty hard-ass approach to management. the guy we hired came out of the north bay. very no-nonsense. i don’t know what kind of board (commissioners) the SFFD has, but failures of leadership are their responsibility as well. it looks like they are appointed rather than elected. may be part of the problem.

WRT the city being ‘huge’, well run management systems are capable of managing organizations significantly larger than the SFFD. when i was in private industry, we had almost 200,000 staff world-wide. the chain of command was crystal clear, and reporting covered all out-of-tolerance and anomalous events and incidents. the CEO was briefed on all of it. and you DID NOT want to draw the attention of the CEO. alternative employment incoming.
 
littlebeast said:
no clue where the failure is, but my point was - chief’s problem to solve. when we hired our new chief, i was on the interview board. we had a bumper crop of candidates, many from BA jurisdictions, and with the exception of 2 dudes who were kinda soft, they all had a pretty hard-ass approach to management. the guy we hired came out of the north bay. very no-nonsense. i don’t know what kind of board (commissioners) the SFFD has, but failures of leadership are their responsibility as well. it looks like they are appointed rather than elected. may be part of the problem.

WRT the city being ‘huge’, well run management systems are capable of managing organizations significantly larger than the SFFD. when i was in private industry, we had almost 200,000 staff world-wide. the chain of command was crystal clear, and reporting covered all out-of-tolerance and anomalous events and incidents. the CEO was briefed on all of it. and you DID NOT want to draw the attention of the CEO. alternative employment incoming.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the thing I was implying under the work dynamic piece was the politics in SF, which is a City that runs very poorly, in no small part due to Union corruption going back decades to when you needed to go visit Northbeach or The Sunset if you wanted to get anything done (Irish & Italian Mobs).

Chief Jo actually did a pretty good job for a long time, but the Board of Supervisors, the root of a significant portion of the corruption and dysfunction in SF, don't make it easy for any appointed officials.
 
my favorite line from one of my fictional conversations between a couple of cowboys. over whiskey. long backstory, but in a nutshell, young buck being dismissive of grizzled old timer. old timer: ‘i could tell you a thing or two about yer manner of judgin’ folks too, but i can see you got that all figured by yerself.’ yes, facetious.

the thing is, it’s more than what’s on the surface. age is irrelevant in that regard. it’s more of a mindset.
 
Blankpage said:
If you’re bad people you’ll have a lot easier time being yourself as a union member.
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Exactly. As a former member of multiple unions, I've never seen them do more for their members than protecting them from suffering the consequences when they've truly fucked up. It's second only to keeping useless people in roles they have no businesses being in.
Eldritch said:
Related: https://hoodline.com/2024/06/san-fr...ampa-idaho-shines-as-best-in-wallethub-study/
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www.niemanlab.org

What’s in a byline? For Hoodline’s AI-generated local news, everything — and nothing

None of the AI writers seems to have a specific beat, except possibly for what can be best described as "police exploits," which they all cover with gusto.
www.niemanlab.org
 
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The general workers in Richmond had a union rep from the early 2000's to near 2019 who sold them down the river at every turn...their pay went backwards during her whole tenure (in relation to Cost of Living index) and plenty of them lost their jobs while most of the others worked for increasingly abusive managers who knew there would be no consequences to abusing their workers.

It wasn't the first time I had a first hand view into shit unions.
 
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