m0t0_ryder
RYD!
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2003
- Location
- Cupertino
- Moto(s)
- Big to small.
I like 'em all.
950ADVS-450EXC-R100GS-TW200-YW50P-XR600-Z1-ST90-model165Hummer-ct125
- Name
- John
I generally try not to cross post information but this is such good stuff (from an expert) that I felt compelled to share it.
This is from the SFDirtbikes Yahoo Forum...
It was in response to a query from a group member asking about the possibility to street license a Red Sticker bike...
I have not done any editing of Bill Dart's post.
=====cross-post starts here=====>
From: "Bill Dart" <brbill_d@sharetrails.org>
Date: Tue May 27, 2003 10:40 am
Subject: RE: Red Stickers/Street Plates
Jerry/Steve
Carb originally banned all 2-strokes, and many 4-strokes built after 1-1-97, for off-road registration, using an emission standard. I came up with the Red Sticker concept as an alternative to the outright ban, to allow the use of non-complying models in areas that are in compliance with federal air quality standards, while they are in compliance.
Most of the state is open from October 1 through May 31 for Red Sticker bikes, much of California north of the bay area is open year round, while the closer you get to LA, the shorter the season is. The Red Sticker program was approved on 12-10-98. But DMV never updated their software to automatically catch the VIN numbers. Any 98 or newer model bike with a "C" or "3" for the eighth digit digit is supposed to be a Red Sticker bike. But DMV totally bungled the program, and issued over 10,000 Green Stickers to Red sticker bikes between 98 and today. This made the seasonal use rules unenforceable. Is is not uncommon for two guys to have the same year and model bikes, with different stickers on them. This year, DMV and CARB, along with State Parks, decided to basically try again, but gave all the 98-2002 Red Sticker models a Green Sticker, and all the non-complying 2003's are supposed to get Red Stickers, and supposedly, DMV has/ or will shortly, finally upgrade their software to properly register bikess from now on. For 03 models, all 2-strokes are Red stickers, as well as the CRF Hondas, the YZF and YZFWR 250 and 450's, and even the Kawasuki DRZ/KLX 400's are Red sticker bikes, along with all the Euro bikes such as Husky, VOR, Vertamati. The only Green Sticker 03 models are the Honda XR's, the Honda CRF-F models, the KLX 300, and the TTR Yami's, and not all of the Yamis are certified (250 isn't for sure), and the KTM 450-525 EXC models, and some of the ATK's are Green Sticker.
Now, as for the street licensing issue, this is not a 2-stroke-4-stroke issue. Currently, it is possible for the owner to convert any Green Sticker bike to a street legal bike, but ONLY after the bike is first Green Sticker registered. But there is a push to close this loophole by some enforcement folks, and CARB wants to do this also. On May 14, CARB issued Advisory 313 to clarify the Green/Red sticker issue, and in it they state "A motorcycle or other OHV emissions certified for "off-highway use" can never be made street legal. The installation of a light kit does NOT make an off-highway certified motorcycle or OHV legal for street highway use and registration" The problem is that this is in conflict with CHP Bulletin 888, which outlines the procedure for an owner built or converted off-highway vehicle to be made street legal. DMV has a form as well (I can't recall that form number/name at the moment). Neither of these forms talks about emissions at all. Plus, motorcycles are not emissions tested, so there is no verification procedure like cars must do. I have seen plates on CR500's, KTM 2-strokes, and lots of KDX 200/220's, etc. DMV really doesn't look at the emission's side of this at all. Once you have a Green Sticker, they don't even inspect the equipment. You do have to have the head light, hi/lo beam indicator, certified by a state licensed motorcycle headlight inspection shop, but they don't "officially" look at turn signals, battery for the tail light, horn, mirrors. etc. Alan Roach at Baja Designs is the expert on this stuff, and if you buy one of their kits, you get the CHP form you you sign to certify that your bikes complies with the CHP Bulletin 888, and the DMV form to convert an off-road bike to street legal.
On May 15, I was at a meeting in southern California on sound issues, along with several of the aftermarket exhaust companies, a couple of the OEM's, the Motorcycle Industry Council, and about 35 local, state, & federal enforcment officers to talk about the new California 96 db rule, and I was surprised to find 2 folks from the CARB enforcement division there. I introduced myself during a break, and they gave me a copy of Advisory 313. I asked them how it fit in with CHP form 888, and they had never heard of it. I quit talking at that point, as making an issue of it would likely lead to them getting the CHP loophole closed.
Right now, CARB is still not fully coordinated with DMV, and until DMV makes a big deal of it, and issues their own internal bulletin/advisory to their offices, you can still get a plate on a dirt bike.
There are some out of state options too, but it is much cleaner to do it in California. I believe that Vermont will issue a plate by mail for about $35, but I know folks who have gotten hassled with no Vermont drivers license. Some used this dodge to get around the Red sticker issues, but some OHV enforcement officers get particularly riled when they started seeing Red Sticker bikes with Vermont plates at Hollister and other parks, and took it as a personal challenge to make things "right".
As for out of state bikes, some aren't California VIN compliant, but usually aren't a problem. Just don't try to go straight to a plate on a new bike, just as you can't register a new "49 state" car in California. It has to be used, with at least 7,500 miles on it, and dirt bikes don't even have cumulative odometers. I had a friend get a plate at first, but lost it within a year over this on an XR 600. But non-US models, such as Canadian, are being totally rejected now in California. The VIN number gives it away, and won't work at DMV at all. The VIN is coded, with a formula that tells DMV all about what it is, and where it was built.
The bottom line is if you want to get a plate on a dirt bike, I would do it quickly
Bill Dart, Public Lands Director
Blue Ribbon Coalition
208-237-1008, ex 102
Fax 208-237-9424
This is from the SFDirtbikes Yahoo Forum...
It was in response to a query from a group member asking about the possibility to street license a Red Sticker bike...
I have not done any editing of Bill Dart's post.
=====cross-post starts here=====>
From: "Bill Dart" <brbill_d@sharetrails.org>
Date: Tue May 27, 2003 10:40 am
Subject: RE: Red Stickers/Street Plates
Jerry/Steve
Carb originally banned all 2-strokes, and many 4-strokes built after 1-1-97, for off-road registration, using an emission standard. I came up with the Red Sticker concept as an alternative to the outright ban, to allow the use of non-complying models in areas that are in compliance with federal air quality standards, while they are in compliance.
Most of the state is open from October 1 through May 31 for Red Sticker bikes, much of California north of the bay area is open year round, while the closer you get to LA, the shorter the season is. The Red Sticker program was approved on 12-10-98. But DMV never updated their software to automatically catch the VIN numbers. Any 98 or newer model bike with a "C" or "3" for the eighth digit digit is supposed to be a Red Sticker bike. But DMV totally bungled the program, and issued over 10,000 Green Stickers to Red sticker bikes between 98 and today. This made the seasonal use rules unenforceable. Is is not uncommon for two guys to have the same year and model bikes, with different stickers on them. This year, DMV and CARB, along with State Parks, decided to basically try again, but gave all the 98-2002 Red Sticker models a Green Sticker, and all the non-complying 2003's are supposed to get Red Stickers, and supposedly, DMV has/ or will shortly, finally upgrade their software to properly register bikess from now on. For 03 models, all 2-strokes are Red stickers, as well as the CRF Hondas, the YZF and YZFWR 250 and 450's, and even the Kawasuki DRZ/KLX 400's are Red sticker bikes, along with all the Euro bikes such as Husky, VOR, Vertamati. The only Green Sticker 03 models are the Honda XR's, the Honda CRF-F models, the KLX 300, and the TTR Yami's, and not all of the Yamis are certified (250 isn't for sure), and the KTM 450-525 EXC models, and some of the ATK's are Green Sticker.
Now, as for the street licensing issue, this is not a 2-stroke-4-stroke issue. Currently, it is possible for the owner to convert any Green Sticker bike to a street legal bike, but ONLY after the bike is first Green Sticker registered. But there is a push to close this loophole by some enforcement folks, and CARB wants to do this also. On May 14, CARB issued Advisory 313 to clarify the Green/Red sticker issue, and in it they state "A motorcycle or other OHV emissions certified for "off-highway use" can never be made street legal. The installation of a light kit does NOT make an off-highway certified motorcycle or OHV legal for street highway use and registration" The problem is that this is in conflict with CHP Bulletin 888, which outlines the procedure for an owner built or converted off-highway vehicle to be made street legal. DMV has a form as well (I can't recall that form number/name at the moment). Neither of these forms talks about emissions at all. Plus, motorcycles are not emissions tested, so there is no verification procedure like cars must do. I have seen plates on CR500's, KTM 2-strokes, and lots of KDX 200/220's, etc. DMV really doesn't look at the emission's side of this at all. Once you have a Green Sticker, they don't even inspect the equipment. You do have to have the head light, hi/lo beam indicator, certified by a state licensed motorcycle headlight inspection shop, but they don't "officially" look at turn signals, battery for the tail light, horn, mirrors. etc. Alan Roach at Baja Designs is the expert on this stuff, and if you buy one of their kits, you get the CHP form you you sign to certify that your bikes complies with the CHP Bulletin 888, and the DMV form to convert an off-road bike to street legal.
On May 15, I was at a meeting in southern California on sound issues, along with several of the aftermarket exhaust companies, a couple of the OEM's, the Motorcycle Industry Council, and about 35 local, state, & federal enforcment officers to talk about the new California 96 db rule, and I was surprised to find 2 folks from the CARB enforcement division there. I introduced myself during a break, and they gave me a copy of Advisory 313. I asked them how it fit in with CHP form 888, and they had never heard of it. I quit talking at that point, as making an issue of it would likely lead to them getting the CHP loophole closed.
Right now, CARB is still not fully coordinated with DMV, and until DMV makes a big deal of it, and issues their own internal bulletin/advisory to their offices, you can still get a plate on a dirt bike.
There are some out of state options too, but it is much cleaner to do it in California. I believe that Vermont will issue a plate by mail for about $35, but I know folks who have gotten hassled with no Vermont drivers license. Some used this dodge to get around the Red sticker issues, but some OHV enforcement officers get particularly riled when they started seeing Red Sticker bikes with Vermont plates at Hollister and other parks, and took it as a personal challenge to make things "right".
As for out of state bikes, some aren't California VIN compliant, but usually aren't a problem. Just don't try to go straight to a plate on a new bike, just as you can't register a new "49 state" car in California. It has to be used, with at least 7,500 miles on it, and dirt bikes don't even have cumulative odometers. I had a friend get a plate at first, but lost it within a year over this on an XR 600. But non-US models, such as Canadian, are being totally rejected now in California. The VIN number gives it away, and won't work at DMV at all. The VIN is coded, with a formula that tells DMV all about what it is, and where it was built.
The bottom line is if you want to get a plate on a dirt bike, I would do it quickly
Bill Dart, Public Lands Director
Blue Ribbon Coalition
208-237-1008, ex 102
Fax 208-237-9424