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Can't find "N"...intermittent & annoying

MBRider

New member
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
Location
Santa Cruz
Moto(s)
Dual Sport - WR250
Adventure - V-Strom 650
Name
Kevin
Riding an 05 V-Strom DL650 - Every so often when I'm out riding and shut down / then re-start in short timeframe (5 mins after stop)...I'm unable to 'find' neutral. The trans simply won't shift into Neutral...I try all kinds of tricks moving the bike forward/back. The only thing that seems to work is to wait it out for at least 10 mins and then it simply drops into Neutral with no issue. I changed the oil this past weekend and it's filled to the proper level. It seems to be happening with more frequency. I don't do the quick stop / starts often but sometimes when you're out running errands it is what it is.

What am I missing here??
 
Work the friction point of your clutch, just when it starts to bite and move, pull the clutch in and get a feel of pressure releasing on the shift lever.
You are spinning engagement dogs on transmission gears, trying to move them a little bit to disengage.
A dragging clutch will hide this feel, does it barely move forward as you start it, clutch in, in gear?
 
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Have you tried shifting into second gear initially and then dropping it down to N? I can't tell from your description, but it sounds like you're insisting that it go from 1 to N.
 
Yes, I'm moving the gearshift from 1 up into 2 and then back down. Doing this multiple times and working the friction point as I move between gears trying to coax it into neutral.

What's odd is the green dash light for Neutral usually flashes as you pass from 2 back down. When this issue comes up, I don't even see the green flash. It's skipping over neutral and dropping into either first or second....it's not 'finding' neutral.

I am trying to work the friction point to get it to 'drop' into neutral. I think I'm already doing what you have described but I'll try it again the next time it happens.

What is throwing me is how after 10 mins of sitting, it simply goes back to normal and drops right into neutral as if nothing ever happened.
 
Not a motorcycle mechanic by any means but I wonder if maybe your clutch plates are worn or something and it causes it to stick when hot/warm and when it cools they are able to separate? I noticed it is an 05 so maybe age/wear on the plates could be the culprit. Did it just start happening? I could be totally off base here also so take it with a grain of salt.

So Googled it and apparently warped plates can do it so maybe that is something to look at especially if it just started happening out of the blue or maybe it has been gradually happening and now it is to the point it is really noticeable.
 
@Sharxfan....thank you for lead....engine was rebuilt 15K ago but the heat angle is where I was heading. It started with no easily dropping into first when coming to a stop at an intersection. I would tap for first and it would pop into neutral every so often. I would have to hold the gearshift down and friction the clutch for it to drop into first. Still happens at random times. I'm used to it now.

It's just been in the last two weeks that I have this new dynamic of not being able to 'find' neutral on a warm start up. Thanks again!
 
Have you tried adjusting the clutch cable? There are adjustments at both ends of the cable.

Occam’s razor.
 
First I'd guess old oil but you already changed that.
Because the oil was recently changed the first thing that came to my mind was "what kind of oil was used?"
Motorcycles require specific engine oil that does not use the same friction modifiers as found in automotive applications. Auto oil coats the clutch plates and can cause all kinds of gremlins.
But the fact that you say the condition is very intermittent, that kind of rules out the wrong oil.
 
First check your clutch for drag... your gears can't shift
smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...


1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a warm steady idle...

3 Squeeze in the clutch lever and shift into first gear...

4 Hold in the clutch lever and note if the rear wheel coast to stop...
if it continues spinning trouble shoot the lever for travel and master
cylinder for condition...

Ultimately you want the rear wheel to coast to a stop when the engine
is idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...
 
Motorcycles require specific engine oil that does not use the same friction modifiers as found in automotive applications.

Negative... motorcycles do not require a specific oil... Auto and MC oils
employ the same friction modifiers in similar quantities because Oils are
formulated to service the engine and not the clutch...

Friction Modifiers (FM) are only a small percent of the total oil
product and help the base oil do things that it otherwise could not...
(FM) fall into several basic categories but Moly, Phosphors and
Zinc are the most often used friction modifiers... some FM can be a
friction increaser...


Virgin Oil Samples of Honda GN4 10w30 MC and Mobil 1 5W30 API SN EC
Auto... both employ anti wear additives that are wet clutch compatible...

attachment.php
 
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This link (plus a dozen more) in addition to everything I have heard over 50 years of riding disagrees with you.

We agree that the holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation
3)Experience... employing those tools we observe that MC and Auto oils work
equally well... both will meet and exceed your mileage expectations....
 
I can't seem to resist a good oil misinformation thread.

Someone is forgetting qbout transmission gears. They shear the oil molecules and cause it to thin out. Why do you think manual transmission fluid is so thick?

This information is, or should be, common knowledge. Bike oil is different from car oil. And it's all expensive now anyway. Run the right stuff.
 
Someone is forgetting qbout transmission gears. They shear the oil molecules and cause it to thin out. Why do you think manual transmission fluid is so thick.

Are you aware that it’s very common for manual transmissions in cars to run ATF?
 
As long as the oil meets the man'f specs, the motorcycle doesn't care if its auto, diesel or motorcycle oil.
 
I can't seem to resist a good oil misinformation thread.

Me too Andy...

Someone is forgetting qbout transmission gears. They shear the oil molecules and cause it to thin out.

Mercy Andy don't fear the shear...

Shear Stability is a measure of the amount of viscosity an oil may
lose during operation. Oil experiences very high stresses in certain
areas of the engine such as in the oil pump, cam shaft area , piston
rings, and gears or any other areas where two mating surface areas
squeeze the oil film out momentarily... but technically speaking as
our oil shears down we don't see elevated wear rates because oil
analysis shows as viscosity shears down the flow goes up and the
concept of lubrication states the greater the flow the greater the
protection...

usedoilflowtest7-jpg.116014



Why do you think manual transmission fluid is so thick?

API grades oil on gravity flow... it ain't a measurement of thick or
thin... more flow is more protection... more flow lowers temp... more
flow frees up more HP...

full-45634-35394-viscositytest1.jpg
 
First check your clutch for drag... your gears can't shift
smoothly if your clutch is part way engaged...


1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a warm steady idle...

3 Squeeze in the clutch lever and shift into first gear...

4 Hold in the clutch lever and note if the rear wheel coast to stop...
if it continues spinning trouble shoot the lever for travel and master
cylinder for condition...

Ultimately you want the rear wheel to coast to a stop when the engine
is idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...
Been meaning to thank you for this response! I checked and sure enough, rear wheel was driving slowly when in first with the clutch fully engaged. Decided it was time to replace the cable.....installed a new cable, adjusted the lever and no more spinning in first. It's been over a year now and no more wonky neutral battles at random times! Thanks again!!
 
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