Talk to Me About Arguing With Your Insurance Company

[Mike95060]

Ok so I will try to be short and to the point. My insurance company and I disagree with the value of my totaled 2004 non-ABS ST4s. I think they are low balling me by $1,500-2,000.

For me to change the valuation I need to hire an appraiser, have them do an appraisal and then they will meet with the insurance companies appraiser and try to reach an agreement. If they reach an agreement I have to live with their dollar value. If they do not reach an agreement it goes to binding arbitration with a third party arbiter and I have to live with whatever dollar figure they arrive at.

My question is, is this process worth it? What does it cost to have a bike appraised? Has anyone done this and if so how did it work out?

I don’t want to be too specific with dollar amounts but they are offering me about $2200 less than I bought the bike for less than a year ago.

The situation isn’t hostile and I don’t want it to be but, I am feeling a bit abused here.

Thanks in advance!

 

[auntiebling]

i don't know first hand but your insurance policy probably defines who pays for appraisals and arbitrator fees in such circumstances.

it seems a weird hill to die on for their part, they're going to burn through $2k in paperwork and PITA pretty quick. paying you out sounds like the cheaper option, but maybe their corporate metrics don't work that way

 

[edzx6]

My friend just went through this with his truck. He ended up getting about $8K more than they originally offered. They were offering low KBB and you cant find his truck for less than $18K. He argued with them for about 3 weeks and they threatened to cut off his rental and other things.

Keep fighting if you know you are right.

 

[Mike95060]

^ wow that is worth fighting for! If I came up 3k I would feel like a boss

 

[NoTraffic]

I was probably in a different circumstance but I had a bike deemed totaled as it was the fault of another driver. The other parties insurance gave me a valuation I didn't think was fair. I spoke to my insurance and they asked for comparables to show that the market I'm living in has a premium. I sent over a couple ads via craigslist/cycle trader and the other insurance adjusted it. It wasn't a significant delta but the idea that I got more and the principle helped ease the pain of losing a bike and being involved in a crash.

I'm not sure how different an independent appraiser is going to value your bike. They will likely look at comparable and see if there was any modified accessories/parts and condition of the bike to assess what it would have been worth before damages.

 

[dravnx]

I was probably in a different circumstance but I had a bike deemed totaled as it was the fault of another driver. The other parties insurance gave me a valuation I didn't think was fair. I spoke to my insurance and they asked for comparables to show that the market I'm living in has a premium. I sent over a couple ads via craigslist/cycle trader and the other insurance adjusted it. It wasn't a significant delta but the idea that I got more and the principle helped ease the pain of losing a bike and being involved in a crash.

I'm not sure how different an independent appraiser is going to value your bike. They will likely look at comparable and see if there was any modified accessories/parts and condition of the bike to assess what it would have been worth before damages.

This right here. It doesn't matter what you paid for it. What matters is the replacement cost if you want to buy one right now.

 

[Mike95060]

This right here. It doesn't matter what you paid for it. What matters is the replacement cost if you want to buy one right now.

I hear you. But they are offering me just above 3k. These were what I could find for comparables but the insurance company doesn’t want to use them because reasons.

I’m am being compensated for gear and accessories separately from the value of the bike.

 

[splat]

it seems a weird hill to die on for their part, they're going to burn through $2k in paperwork and PITA pretty quick. paying you out sounds like the cheaper option, but maybe their corporate metrics don't work that way

And one less renewal once it comes time to do so.

 

[Kurosaki]

The last time I had to deal with insurance in this way, it didn't even go as far as needing an appraiser.

It was a simple procedure of showing comparable cars currently for sale. There was still some back and forth regarding value, got a little more out of them, but I hit a dollar point where arguing further wasn't worth my time and stress anymore.

 

[Mike95060]

The last time I had to deal with insurance in this way, it didn't even go as far as needing an appraiser.

It was a simple procedure of showing comparable cars currently for sale. There was still some back and forth regarding value, got a little more out of them, but I hit a dollar point where arguing further wasn't worth my time and stress anymore.

That’s what I thought would happen. They are kinda stone walling and saying they can’t negotiate. I don’t want a premium. I want fair. Fair in my book is up another 1500-2k

 

[Kurosaki]

That’s what I thought would happen. They are kinda stone walling and saying they can’t negotiate. I don’t want a premium. I want fair. Fair in my book is up another 1500-2k

They can always keep negotiating but likely hope you are like 90% of their policy holders that don't know any better and will just take the money and go away.

Keep at it, I say. If this is still an issue in a month or two, maybe time to cut your losses. But that's a personal choice. And also maybe cut your insurance company.

Like was said above, keep fighting if you know you're right 100% applies here.

 

[Mike95060]

They can always keep negotiating but likely hope you are like 90% of their policy holders that don't know any better and will just take the money and go away.

Keep at it, I say. If this is still an issue in a month or two, maybe time to cut your losses. But that's a personal choice. And also maybe cut your insurance company.

Like was said above, keep fighting if you know you're right 100% applies here.

What is blowing me away is that they said they couldn’t find any comparables. The criteria was, same base model bike in the same model year or newer. Starting in my zip code and searching out from there. Ok fine. When they said there were no proper comparables they reached out to two different dealers to find the value of the bike. According to the insurance co the dealers said 3700 and 3300 and they averaged the two.

If I can find a dealer that will sell me a 2004 Ducati ST4S with 38,000 miles on the clock for $3700 we are done now. Ain’t gonna happen and it smells fishy as fuck to me. Imma push on them.

 

[CocoLoco]

i don't know first hand but your insurance policy probably defines who pays for appraisals and arbitrator fees in such circumstances.

it seems a weird hill to die on for their part, they're going to burn through $2k in paperwork and PITA pretty quick. paying you out sounds like the cheaper option, but maybe their corporate metrics don't work that way

 

[Kurosaki]

The same happened to me. They tried to tell me once they couldn't find comparables and then later they found some way below value that were not comparable examples. Then argued my comparable examples were not comparable, because reasons.

 

[buellistic]

I hear you. But they are offering me just above 3k. These were what I could find for comparables but the insurance company doesn’t want to use them because reasons.

I’m am being compensated for gear and accessories separately from the value of the bike.

You can just throw all those out of state ones out the window..
Stick to around home ones. Like Woodside. Or Los Altos hills...

 

[Whammy]

Remember an insurance company although you pay them for insurance isnt on your side when it comes to paying you out.
Their job is to lowball you.
Find other local values of the same bike similar in condition and mileage and argue your case.
Insurance companies have a high and a low amount that they'll pay. stand your ground, and when they hit your magic number take the check and run

 

[novaks47]

Sounds like the numbers they got from the dealers where what the dealers would pay, via trade in or something, before they resell them, lmao!

Keep fighting, they're banking on you being a pushover so that they can pay out as little as possible. It amazes me, given how little total money where're talking about here. You'd think they wouldn't care about a few grand, you'd think they where arguing over the value of an AMG or Porsche, not a $5-7k motorcycle.

 

[ScottRNelson]

I went through this issue in 2003 when I totaled my 1997 Monster M900. If I could have found half a dozen examples of that particular bike being worth more than they were offering I probably could have talked them into a higher value, but I was unable to do so.

So I bought it back from them for about $700 or so and parted it out to make up the difference. That was a minor hassle for a couple of months selling off everything, but the overall amount was much better.

 

[Holeshot]

Mike, here's wholesale on your bike from NPA (wlargest wholesale bike auction in the country). There's only 1 sale and I had to use the ABS model for a comp. The price for non-ABS was derived as $2685.

VEHICLE SUMMARY

Current Whsl Book Units Avg Score Avg Mileage Avg Value
$3,045 1 78 16,500 $3,000

CONDITION BREAKDOWN (AVG SCORE = 78)

Condition Units Avg Score Score Range Avg Value Value Range
70-80 1 78 78 $3,000 $3,000

MILEAGE BREAKDOWN (AVG SCORE = 78)

Condition 0-7500 7500-15000 15000-25000 25000-40000 40000+
70-80 - - $3,000
(AVG = 78) - -

TIME BREAKDOWN (AVG SCORE = 78)

Month Mileage Range Units Score Range Avg Value Value Range
Aug 16,500 1 78 $3,000 $3,000

VEHICLE DETAILS (AVG SCORE = 78)

Date Location CR Score CR Info Mileage/Hrs Color Amount
08/19/2020 Philadelphia
78
EM=9, TR=9, FR=8 16,500 RED $3,000

I found this on Ebay sold:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3339390743...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

You might want to argue the small difference in value of ABS VS non-ABS, for comp's sake.

The posters who mentioned comps for sale in the market place have the best strategy. Read your policy and the valuation clause. You're looking for "actual cash value:, meaning the pre accident value of the bike which usually = current replacement value.

I would not hire an appraiser. You'll likely spend as much, if not more for that service. Given your difference in where your insurance company wants to be and where you think you should be, it's not worth it.

Also, FWIW, Hagerty allows stated value for no real premium. If I can be of any help with wholesale/ dealer resources, let me know.

 

[Mid-packer]

Not a moto issue but may be relevant. I had a claim for a leak in the house turned down, repairs were in the thousands. I was getting nowhere. Spoke to my agent and he hadn’t even been informed that it was refused. I sent him all the excuse-bull paperwork they’d sent, which he also wasn’t aware of. He fought on my behalf and it took a year but they paid (less deductible of course). Anyway the point I’m making is see your broker as a potential ally.