Will changing speed to 20 on 23 streets in SF have an effect on deaths?

[bojangle]

You'd think they'd be able to even say how many speed related deaths happened in that area

If the person hitting people is doing 60 in a 25 what does lowering the speed limit do?

Make it 60 in a 20.

Well it sets up more $$ from the speed cameras.
Assuming that gets passed.

Let's hope not.

We don't need robots with cameras taking motorcycles away from cops. Support your local motorcop.

 

[Eldritch]

Let's hope not.

We don't need robots with cameras taking motorcycles away from cops. Support your local motorcop.

YES. We must always resist the surveillance state. As citizens in a free democracy, we must demand not to live in a society of suspects.

 

[Cabrito]

Vision Zero is failing across the whole State.

https://californialocal.com/localne...1-vision-zero-traffic-deaths-fatalities-fail/

It is because the whole thing is fucking stupid, in SF in particular.

You have a fundamental problem in SF in that they want to eliminate Traffic Incidents by making driving in the City as inconvenient as possible. You have a lot of really vocal douchebags, particularly the most vile subhumans of the Bicycle Scum set, who really have the goal of not allowing Cars inside the City at all. What is worse, for the most part, the City seems to be very comfortable with a zero enforcement policy for bad behavior by pedestrians and Bicycles.

It is a complete failure of leadership and of Government policy. Individual vehicles simply aren't going anywhere. The need will not go away and will not be reduced as long as SF remains an employment hub surrounded by millions of People in suburban sprawl.

Responsible leadership would be investing in infrastructure that made driving a vehicle in the City easier, more convenient, and largely separate from the pedestrian traffic, but they just don't have an interest in that, so you get the clusterfuck we have instead.

Pretty much this ^^^

As far as the new 20mph signs goes I'll probably see them and slow down a bit until I assess the situation. Especially if any of them are along any of my usual routes. I doubt they will have any effect on traffic related deaths though.

 

[Agent Orange]

Vision Zero is failing across the whole State.

https://californialocal.com/localne...1-vision-zero-traffic-deaths-fatalities-fail/

It is because the whole thing is fucking stupid, in SF in particular.

You have a fundamental problem in SF in that they want to eliminate Traffic Incidents by making driving in the City as inconvenient as possible. You have a lot of really vocal douchebags, particularly the most vile subhumans of the Bicycle Scum set, who really have the goal of not allowing Cars inside the City at all. What is worse, for the most part, the City seems to be very comfortable with a zero enforcement policy for bad behavior by pedestrians and Bicycles.

It is a complete failure of leadership and of Government policy. Individual vehicles simply aren't going anywhere. The need will not go away and will not be reduced as long as SF remains an employment hub surrounded by millions of People in suburban sprawl.

Responsible leadership would be investing in infrastructure that made driving a vehicle in the City easier, more convenient, and largely separate from the pedestrian traffic, but they just don't have an interest in that, so you get the clusterfuck we have instead.

https://missionlocal.org/2023/06/crashes-confusion-unfinished-sf-valencia-bike-lane/

 

[Eldritch]

Pretty much this ^^^

As far as the new 20mph signs goes I'll probably see them and slow down a bit until I assess the situation. Especially if any of them are along any of my usual routes. I doubt they will have any effect on traffic related deaths though.

I honestly almost never drive anymore now that I am back in the City, but as a great example, who actually pays attention to the Right Turn Only/Carpool Lane on Lombard they installed recently?

 

[Cabrito]

I honestly almost never drive anymore now that I am back in the City, but as a great example, who actually pays attention to the Right Turn Only/Carpool Lane on Lombard they installed recently?

I know right? It's the same with the ones on Geary Blvd and probably all the others.

I'm a 50/50 mix of driving and riding these days to work. My commute is from the Inner Richmond to the Bayshore area on the surface streets. The Moto is by far the most fun for getting around SF.

 

[RRR70]

YES. We must always resist the surveillance state. As citizens in a free democracy, we must demand not to live in a society of suspects.

Our “leaders” don’t give a fuck about our demands. Look at whatever company will install and maintain the speed cameras, and which dipshits “leaders” are pushing those laws. There is your $$$$$$ exchange.

 

[byke]

Wrong forum. Peeeee taaaaaarp.

 

[msethhunter]

Nope, and texting and driving should have the same consequences as drinking and driving.

 

[Eldritch]

Our “leaders” don’t give a fuck about our demands. Look at whatever company will install and maintain the speed cameras, and which dipshits “leaders” are pushing those laws. There is your $$$$$$ exchange.

LOL, i would not go around blaming any company for that. The excitement about all that extra, petty, couple miles over the limit ticket money is very exciting to the City.

 

[tgrrdr]

Personally, I don't think that it's going to make people stop texting, nor will it get pedestrians to look both ways before crossing.

IF people drive slower, and that's a big IF, it will decrease their stopping distance, but call me skeptical.

Thoughts?

I think people for the most part drive at a speed they feel is safe and that has little to do with speed limits and a lot to do with the design of the roadway.

The risk of a pedestrian fatality in a collision at 25 mph is already pretty low, 20 mph won't have much of an impact. If they want to make a meaningful impact they need to get people who are currently speeding to slow down and the way to do that is to redesign the roads.

At 80 kph (around 50 mph) it looks like there's a 50% chance that a pedestrian will die - that's what we need to reduce.



Source - SF fatalities

Source - fatality risk

 

[Climber]

I think that a big part of the equation for the fatalities are the several generations of people who were not raised to look both ways before crossing the street. I've seen far, far too many people who can't be bothered to take their nose out of their phones to assure that they aren't going to get their stupid ass run over if they step out onto the street.

Then you have the people texting while they drive, probably the same people who do the other behavior. In a way, they are killing their own stupid selves, but on the other side by texting.

We have at least a couple generation of programmed road kill.

 

[RRR70]

I think that a big part of the equation for the fatalities are the several generations of people who were not raised to look both ways before crossing the street. I've seen far, far too many people who can't be bothered to take their nose out of their phones to assure that they aren't going to get their stupid ass run over if they step out onto the street.

Then you have the people texting while they drive, probably the same people who do the other behavior. In a way, they are killing their own stupid selves, but on the other side by texting.

We have at least a couple generation of programmed road kill.

You can’t fix stupid. I’m ok with it.

 

[Holeshot]

Pedestrian IGNORE drivers before stepping onto the street and walking the entire distance. If they're not making eye contact with drivers, what are they doing?

 

[Climber]

They can't pull their stupid noses out of their phone, farbeit for them to miss a single click they might have accomplished before stepping onto the street.

I really can't find any fucks to give if they get their stupid asses run over if they can't be bothered to even make the effort to ensure that they are safe to enter the street. Especially since it's their behavioral sibling who is too busy texting while driving when they run them over.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb.

 

[Holeshot]

Ca has decriminalized jay walking, but that I know, has not updated the law on drivers hiring pedestrians (as 100% driver-at-fault).

 

[Abacinator]

They can't pull their stupid noses out of their phone, farbeit for them to miss a single click they might have accomplished before stepping onto the street.

I really can't find any fucks to give if they get their stupid asses run over if they can't be bothered to even make the effort to ensure that they are safe to enter the street. Especially since it's their behavioral sibling who is too busy texting while driving when they run them over.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb.

 

[N4teTheGreat]

Very few drivers pay attention to speed limits, red turn arrows, lane markings, etc in SF. I doubt any of them will realize or care about a speed limit change. I keep a chill pace when I'm in my car, but I feel like I'm an outlier.

 

[Eldritch]

They can't pull their stupid noses out of their phone, farbeit for them to miss a single click they might have accomplished before stepping onto the street.

I really can't find any fucks to give if they get their stupid asses run over if they can't be bothered to even make the effort to ensure that they are safe to enter the street. Especially since it's their behavioral sibling who is too busy texting while driving when they run them over.

Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb.

I mean, downtown, where most the accidents they are trying to get rid of happen, the dope fiends straight run into the street, no look against the light, from between parked vehicles and yet somehow the City constantly cries that it is still the fault of drivers.

In a City that admittedly is full of absurd politics, it is at some of the farthest fringe of their absurdity.

 

[SFMCjohn]

not hard to find info on pedestrian fatalities in SF.

turns out most are elderly and sober, struck down trying to cross a street at an intersection.

there’s evidence of an absurd world for me.