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Healthcare and Its Victims, by Luigi Mangione

budman said:
I said "if" :twofinger
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But isn't that just projecting?

It's not certain that the same level of searching would have gone on had he not been what he was.

BTW, 2024 saw a down trend in female and non-white CEO's.
 
Climber said:
But isn't that just projecting?

It's not certain that the same level of searching would have gone on had he not been what he was.
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Sure it is.. can we not do that here?
 
tzrider said:
Lower life expectancy has a lot of drivers not related to healthcare. Among them are lifestyle choices but another very significant one is guns. As a reminder, guns are the leading cause of death for Americans 17 and younger. These deaths drag the overall life expectancy numbers down considerably.
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+1000 on lifestyle. 7/10 of the top 10 causes for US deaths are lifestyle driven. You could probably add an 8th with a more liberal inclusion of "self created". Firearm deaths aren't even in the top 15 of causes. Surgical / hospital care would list as #3 if it deaths were counted that way. No confusion on why it's not counted.
 
ThumperX said:
Is it time we hold officers of corporations liable and accountable for criminal offenses? Instead of a civil suit for money can their crimes be elevated out of the “white collar” offenses that land them a fine and a slap how about a hard core jury trial and charges of homicide.
I in no way condone this murder, regardless of how I feel about the victim he is a father, son, and husband.
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That'd be nice, but I don't think any of it is enforceable/possible. Murder is a serious charge that has a really high bar to prove. We suspect that UH is shitty at providing insurance for medical services. But how could you possible prove that they murdered tons of people? Perhaps we could prove that their shitty service contributed to someone dying of a disease. That's not murder. And that's the company as a whole, not just the CEO. Maybe you could get to criminal negligence if the CEO actually instructed someone in writing "I want to kill as many subscribers as possible to save money". Probably still not murder, but a jail-able offense.

Today's society does make it seem like fines don't accomplish anything. Alex Jones isn't homeless after a $1.5B fine. BP Oil didn't crumble after paying for polluting the Gulf (did they pay?). I'm sure there are many more examples of useless corporate fines. Fines to a corporation just seem to be passed onto their customers.
 
tzrider said:
Lower life expectancy has a lot of drivers not related to healthcare. Among them are lifestyle choices but another very significant one is guns. As a reminder, guns are the leading cause of death for Americans 17 and younger. These deaths drag the overall life expectancy numbers down considerably.
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Holeshot said:
+1000 on lifestyle. 7/10 of the top 10 causes for US deaths are lifestyle driven. You could probably add an 8th with a more liberal inclusion of "self created". Firearm deaths aren't even in the top 15 of causes. Surgical / hospital care would list as #3 if it deaths were counted that way. No confusion on why it's not counted.
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I'm sure some people much smarter than us have already taken these factors into account when comparing. It could be fun to google for.

Here's a study that says firearm deaths account for a 0.45yr difference in life expectancy in men compared to their comparison countries. From other googling, back in 2012 the US was ~3yrs below the comparable country avg. So about 15% of that may be from firearms.

Major Causes of Injury Death and the Life Expectancy Gap Between the United States and Other High-Income Countries - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Comparing lifestyle may actually be easier... maybe we can just use the next fattest country :laughing
 
Answer: to use the same strategy that's being used to go after vaccine producing pharma firms. Not sure if it'll work, but the documentation from the firms iooks damning enough. Same for UH.
 
Definitely not 100% lifestyle. When 99% of food prevalence is processed shit, you can't exactly put 100% of the blame on people not able/willing/knowing enough to find/afford/etc. that 1%. What's technically possible ≠ what's probably. Usually quite the opposite.
 
Holeshot said:
Answer: to use the same strategy that's being used to go after vaccine producing pharma firms. Not sure if it'll work, but the documentation from the firms iooks damning enough. Same for UH.
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Which big pharma example?
 
Holeshot said:
Answer: to use the same strategy that's being used to go after vaccine producing pharma firms. Not sure if it'll work, but the documentation from the firms iooks damning enough. Same for UH.
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Got a link?

Another example may be those people that went down for their part in the opioid epidemic. But those people may just be the patsy in the whole situation, Purdue Pharma et al. I cant rem if anyone went to jail though.
 
byke said:
Definitely not 100% lifestyle. When 99% of food prevalence is processed shit, you can't exactly put 100% of the blame on people not able/willing/knowing enough to find/afford/etc. that 1%. What's technically possible ≠ what's probably. Usually quite the opposite.
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Yeah, I don’t know of another country as influenced by Big Food as we are.
 
Food and healthcare are probably the top two reasons why we'll be leaving the states.
 
I just read the “manifesto”; it begs the Trolly Question.
 
tzrider said:
Lower life expectancy has a lot of drivers not related to healthcare. Among them are lifestyle choices but another very significant one is guns. As a reminder, guns are the leading cause of death for Americans 17 and younger. These deaths drag the overall life expectancy numbers down considerably.
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I don't think this statement is accurate, When I look at the CDC causes of death, https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr73/nvsr73-08.pdf, pages 46 and 47 it appears that guns kill 1-14 year olds 789 times in 2021 while motor vehicle accidents, drownings and exposure to fire, smoke or noxious fumes killed 9415. That's 12 times more than guns. yes there is a big jump in gun deaths in 15-14 year olds. Most gun deaths are middle aged white guys committing suicide. If you could tell me where you got that stat so I can educate myself that would be appreciated. Thanks In Advance.
 
Yeah I think suicides should be taken out of gun deaths, as they most likely would have done the deed whether or not they had a gun
 
IMO all suicides should be taken out of life expectancy, as they are apples and oranges. So are war deaths. Crime deaths, yeah those make sense to leave in.
 
That was something I was wondering about the numbers that came out from Canada. When people use assisted suicide because they're dying of cancer, is it a suicide, or death from cancer, or do they allow one death to count as two deaths by being in multiple categories?
 
Texas and now, Kansas are suing Pfizer for "vaccine claims" and "adverse affects". Individuals (class action) are suing the Biden admin's Vaccine injury program (CICP). There's info coming out about Pfizer's knowledge of adverse affects, etc.
 
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