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Healthcare and Its Victims, by Luigi Mangione

Reli said:
IMO all suicides should be taken out of life expectancy, as they are apples and oranges. So are war deaths. Crime deaths, yeah those make sense to leave in.
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I don’t agree. Suicide is a factor in the death rate of any society and an indicator of issues in that society.
 
tuxumino said:
I don't think this statement is accurate, When I look at the CDC causes of death, https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr73/nvsr73-08.pdf, pages 46 and 47 it appears that guns kill 1-14 year olds 789 times in 2021 while motor vehicle accidents, drownings and exposure to fire, smoke or noxious fumes killed 9415. That's 12 times more than guns. yes there is a big jump in gun deaths in 15-14 year olds. Most gun deaths are middle aged white guys committing suicide. If you could tell me where you got that stat so I can educate myself that would be appreciated. Thanks In Advance.
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The statement was accurate. The data you cited was a bit older and it left out 16 and 17 year olds, who contribute more heavily to the overall number.

publichealth.jhu.edu

Guns Remain Leading Cause of Death for Children and Teens | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Center for Gun Violence Solutions latest annual report highlights CDC 2022 firearm deaths, with focus on young people and people of color
publichealth.jhu.edu publichealth.jhu.edu
 
Reli said:
Yeah I think suicides should be taken out of gun deaths, as they most likely would have done the deed whether or not they had a gun
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That makes no sense. A suicide by gun is literally a gun death.
 
Put it this way, if I'm thinking of moving to a country, I would only care about things that affect me. So no I wouldn't care about female life expectancy, or suicide, as there is nothing that would cause me to commit suicide. If the country was really that depressing, I would simply move back.

Criminals, however, could very well affect me. That is why I would exclude gun suicides from gun deaths. People who research gun violence are doing it to see how much they should be nervous about gun violence in a certain place. They're not using it to see how much they should be afraid of gun suicide.

This is off-topic anyway, so I'll drop it after this.
 
Ok but that's not why suicide is included in gun death statistics. But yeah, another thread.
 
tzrider said:
The statement was accurate. The data you cited was a bit older and it left out 16 and 17 year olds, who contribute more heavily to the overall number.

publichealth.jhu.edu

Guns Remain Leading Cause of Death for Children and Teens | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Center for Gun Violence Solutions latest annual report highlights CDC 2022 firearm deaths, with focus on young people and people of color
publichealth.jhu.edu publichealth.jhu.edu
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I'd say John Hopkins has a pretty clear bias. I'll have to research the numbers some more but from what I've seen the numbers don't change that much from year to across all causes of death with 2020 being an exception with covid adding numbers in that area. that the numbers don't change that much and John Hopkins and other gun safety organizations saying gun deaths just became the leading cause makes me skeptical.
 
tuxumino said:
I'd say John Hopkins has a pretty clear bias. I'll have to research the numbers some more but from what I've seen the numbers don't change that much from year to across all causes of death with 2020 being an exception with covid adding numbers in that area. that the numbers don't change that much and John Hopkins and other gun safety organizations saying gun deaths just became the leading cause makes me skeptical.
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The same stats are being reported many places. Even heard the same info on the radio on my drive to work a couple of days ago. Don’t know what else to say.
 
tzrider said:
The statement was accurate. The data you cited was a bit older and it left out 16 and 17 year olds, who contribute more heavily to the overall number.
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There's reasons gun deaths are greater for 16-18 years old males; the community they live in. Gangs in these communities drive the violence. The guns are the tools, but the criminal element and our inability to deal with the crime is the fuel for the gun deaths. We have a large crime problem and lack of opportunity problem in communities with poorer Americans. The "solutions" have led to worse results. It's sad.

Racial and ethnic differences in gun deaths among kids are stark. In 2021, 46% of all gun deaths among children and teens involved Black victims, even though only 14% of the U.S. under-18 population that year was Black. Much smaller shares of gun deaths among children and teens in 2021 involved White (32%), Hispanic (17%) and Asian (1%) victims.

A chart showing that black children are five times as likely as White children to die from gunfire.
Looked at another way, Black children and teens were roughly five times as likely as their White counterparts to die from gunfire in 2021. There were 11.8 gun deaths per 100,000 Black children and teens that year, compared with 2.3 gun deaths per 100,000 White children and teens. The gun death rate among Hispanic children and teens was also 2.3 deaths per 100,000 in 2021, while it was lower among Asian children and teens (0.9 per 100,000).

There are also major racial and ethnic differences in the types of gun deaths involving children and teens. In 2021, a large majority of gun deaths involving Black children and teens (84%) were homicides, while 9% were suicides. Among White children and teens, by contrast, the majority of gun deaths (66%) were suicides, while a much smaller share (24%) were homicides.

In this analysis, Black, White and Asian children and teens include only those who are single-race and not Hispanic, while Hispanic children and teens are of any race.
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Doobz said:
The monetization of healthcare is immoral.
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i guess i'm confused. the government could do it, but as we know, they suck at pretty much everything they do (yeah, bit of sarcasm). and taxes are already too high (further sarcasm). so who's gonna take it on? looks like what we're left with is private industry. not only to manage it, but to make all of the requisite investment (infrastructure, facilities, staff, research & development, etc.). keeping in mind that this whole sector is still very highly regulated. meaning time and money spent dotting all of the 'i's' and crossing all of the 't's' is ridiculously time consuming and expensive and a large portion of that investment is money down a rathole - a lot of R&D goes absolutely nowhere (a shit ton of trial and error before there is any marketable result). and considering all of this is on the back of private industry, of course, add margin. who pays for that? investors pay up front, and consumers pay on the back end. don't like it? cough up the stones to elect honest, informed and intelligent government representatives capable of navigating this shit. and the cost is what it is. so don't bitch when your taxes go up.
 
Any vets out there can get coverage through the VA and it seems there's a big push by the VA to get vets signed up. I've had VA coverage for over 10 years and it is outstanding! I go to the Monterey outpatient clinic and they treat me extremely well. That may because the top brass retire nearby. But even the main hospital in Palo Alto isn't the ARMY medical facility I remember. I'm guessing the Vietnam Vets were treated so badly that the VA overcompensates, but I have no complaints.
 
bmwbob51 said:
Any vets out there can get coverage through the VA and it seems there's a big push by the VA to get vets signed up. I've had VA coverage for over 10 years and it is outstanding! I go to the Monterey outpatient clinic and they treat me extremely well. That may because the top brass retire nearby. But even the main hospital in Palo Alto isn't the ARMY medical facility I remember. I'm guessing the Vietnam Vets were treated so badly that the VA overcompensates, but I have no complaints.
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As it should be. Glad to hear. The government (us) can do things well when it really tries. :flag
 
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