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For you group riders - How would you react to this CHP stop?

I would love to know if he had the legal grounds to say NO as he did.

I would have given her my license I guess.

And as I left I would say... Sorry you got dusted officer.

I don't trust people with watches that are so big it qualifies as shelter. :laughing
 
Unless she has suspicion of a crime he has committed, it is not a traffic stop and he does not have to ID. If he's pulled over for suspicion of committing a traffic infraction, then he does. Without RAS it's not a traffic stop, it's an investigation into a crime someone else has committed, and he has no requirement to ID.

A lot of judges would interpret this as a traffic stop even though there is no RAS for the stop, which would be a misinterpretation of the statutes in my estimation. Would love to hear LEO opinions on whether or not this is a legit stop, if it qualifies as a traffic stop, and if the rider is legally obligated to ID under CVC 12951 because it's a traffic stop.
 
I’m not an officer so I might be wrong. But….
I think the office has the right to verify you have a valid drives license and insurance.
If you are just walking down the street no, but he was on a public road riding a motor vehicle that requires a valid license and insurance. I think he can object but could get cuffed and taking in until they know whom he is.

I realize the rub is he got stopped for no reason other than it appeared he was in a group.
 
Sorry guys, you must obey a lawful order given by a police officer. If you think it was injust- call their boss, the DA or hire an attorney.

That said, there are things you can lawfully do too; take video/pics, record what is said, pic of the patrol car, the other riders, where everyone is relative to the side of the road, listen carefully to that the officer says. Ask repeatedly if you are free to go. Don't be a dick, be polite but ask pointed questions so its clear this may go somewhere.
 
NorCalBusa said:
Sorry guys, you must obey a lawful order given by a police officer. If you think it was injust- call their boss, the DA or hire an attorney.

That said, there are things you can lawfully do too; take video/pics, record what is said, pic of the patrol car, the other riders, where everyone is relative to the side of the road, listen carefully to that the officer says. Ask repeatedly if you are free to go. Don't be a dick, be polite but ask pointed questions so its clear this may go somewhere.
Click to expand...

What is the lawful order? Produce ID? Because again, if not a traffic stop for suspicion of infraction of traffic laws, no legal obligation exists.
 
I believe the law is on the side of the officer. Although we don't know the outcome, I thought she did a reasonable job of managing the situation without it escalating out of control for the period of the video. I don't quite understand the riders reasoning for not sharing his license. The officer can get all the information from the license plate. He is simply making her life more difficult.
 
NorCalBusa said:
Sorry guys, you must obey a lawful order given by a police officer. If you think it was injust- call their boss, the DA or hire an attorney.

That said, there are things you can lawfully do too; take video/pics, record what is said, pic of the patrol car, the other riders, where everyone is relative to the side of the road, listen carefully to that the officer says. Ask repeatedly if you are free to go. Don't be a dick, be polite but ask pointed questions so its clear this may go somewhere.
Click to expand...
A lot of good info. :thumbup

So asking why is your watch so fucking big is a bad idea??
 
cheez said:
What is the lawful order? Produce ID? Because again, if not a traffic stop for suspicion of infraction of traffic laws, no legal obligation exists.
Click to expand...
"You are detained". Did you miss that part? They all pulled over, while we didn't see it- my guess is they got pulled over red/blues. That is detained and she told them so in the vid.
 
cal scott said:
I believe the law is on the side of the officer. Although we don't know the outcome, I thought she did a reasonable job of managing the situation without it escalating out of control for the period of the video. I don't quite understand the riders reasoning for not sharing his license. The officer can get all the information from the license plate. He is simply making her life more difficult.
Click to expand...
Kinda. She can get the registered owner's information- but that doesn't mean its the owner on the bike.
 
NorCalBusa said:
"You are detained". Did you miss that part? They all pulled over, while we didn't see it- my guess is they got pulled over red/blues. That is detained and she told them so in the vid.
Click to expand...
Right- but she also says that the reason for the stop was not that they broke the law, but that other riders did.

Does a citizen have an obligation to ID if stopped for no lawful reason?

Can a LEO pull over people without cause and demand their ID?
 
cheez said:
Right- but she also says that the reason for the stop was not that they broke the law, but that other riders did.

Does a citizen have an obligation to ID if stopped for no lawful reason?

Can a LEO pull over people without cause and demand their ID?
Click to expand...
Its not a good choice to argue the law on the side of the road while copping an attitude. If you feel your rights were violated- call an attorney to sue them. If you can control your vigor, you could attempt discussing things but I wouldn't rely on expecting to win that discussion. You do you. One cop v. four men on bikes- isn't good odds for any cop if it goes south- can quickly devolve from bad to worse all around.
 
If the cop saw them get on the freeway together, it's reasonable to assume they are riding together. Because of that I would hand over my ID if questioned.

If a riding 'buddy' fled and left me holding the bag, it would be the last time I rode with that 'buddy' and I would probably let the cop know as well. If you see the flashing reds behind you, you stop.
 
cheez said:
Unless she has suspicion of a crime he has committed, it is not a traffic stop and he does not have to ID. If he's pulled over for suspicion of committing a traffic infraction, then he does. Without RAS it's not a traffic stop, it's an investigation into a crime someone else has committed, and he has no requirement to ID.

A lot of judges would interpret this as a traffic stop even though there is no RAS for the stop, which would be a misinterpretation of the statutes in my estimation. Would love to hear LEO opinions on whether or not this is a legit stop, if it qualifies as a traffic stop, and if the rider is legally obligated to ID under CVC 12951 because it's a traffic sto
Click to expand...
  • https://www.aclusocal.org/know-your-rights/when-stopped-officer/
  • You do not have to show your identification to an officer unless you are being lawfully detained or arrested.
    • However, if you are driving you do have to provide your driver’s license if asked, or else you may be ticketed or arrested for driving without a license.
 
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