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"ammo seperate" law in CA - please confirm is this is legit.

T-1 Thunder said:
Ammo can't be in the gun. Got it.
So, you got a loaded magazine that is seperate from the gun.
And you have the unloaded gun.

You have the unloaded gun in plain sight in the passenger seat, no mag attached.
You have the fully loaded magazine inside the center console, or the side of the door, or your pocket - but "seperate" from the gun.

Is this an ok stop by LEO in California?
...
Click to expand...

IIRC that would still be considered a loaded firearm in CA.
 
If the ammo is "readily available" it’s considered loaded, and illegal.
 
There is no legitimate reason for a handgun, loaded or not to be sitting on your seat. If you're transporting it for hunting or target shooting, why can't it be locked in a case?
 
Anti-Hero said:
There is no legitimate reason for a handgun, loaded or not to be sitting on your seat. If you're transporting it for hunting or target shooting, why can't it be locked in a case?
Click to expand...

He might need it to help an LEO make an arrest on a desperate criminal.
 
JPM said:
If the ammo is "readily available" it’s considered loaded, and illegal.
Click to expand...

Sorry, incorrect.

Case law is that the ammunition must be in the firearm in a position ready to fire. I'm too lazy to cite the cases, here's an easier read.... http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#05

As for having it in your passenger compartment, you are busted. Unless in a locked box.

Traveling with Firearms in California
HANDGUNS

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.
 
Jakemate said:
Sorry, incorrect.

Case law is that the ammunition must be in the firearm in a position ready to fire. I'm too lazy to cite the cases, here's an easier read.... http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#05

As for having it in your passenger compartment, you are busted. Unless in a locked box.

Traveling with Firearms in California
HANDGUNS

California Penal Code section 12025 does not prevent a citizen of the United States over 18 years of age who is not lawfully prohibited from firearm possession, and who resides or is temporarily in California, from transporting by motor vehicle any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person provided the firearm is unloaded and stored in a locked container.

The term "locked container" means a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key lock, combination lock, or similar locking device. This includes the trunk of a motor vehicle, but does not include the utility or glove compartment. For more information, refer to California Penal Code Section 12026.1.
Click to expand...

IIRC: If the ammo is within arms reach of the firearm in the passenger compartment and it can be put in battery in a few seconds it's dreamed loaded. Now I don't pretend to know the current case law, but the spirit of the law is that the firearm is not readily accessible and able to be loaded.
 
JPM said:
If the ammo is "readily available" it’s considered loaded, and illegal.
Click to expand...

According to who?

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.


(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder

In T-1's scenario the applicable code appears to be sections 12025 and 12026, concerning carrying a concealed firearm:

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.


12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted
classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or
Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from
transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the
following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.


I think the bottom line is that in this scenario, having the pistol on the seat and not in a locked container constitutes the violation, not the proximity (as described) of the ammunition to it.
 
}Dragon{ said:
IIRC: If the ammo is within arms reach of the firearm in the passenger compartment and it can be put in battery in a few seconds it's dreamed loaded. Now I don't pretend to know the current case law, but the spirit of the law is that the firearm is not readily accessible and able to be loaded.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. A loaded magazine, in the same case as ammo, does not a loaded firearm make. By the letter and case interpretations of the law.

But it better be in a locked case.

<edit>

HA! ^ beat me.
 
I thought the gun or the ammo had to be separated by a locked compartment for transport.

The unloaded gun could be in the passenger compartment of the car and the ammo in the trunk or visa-versa.

The unloaded gun could be in a locked pouch/case with the ammo in a separate container.

The ammo could be in a locked can/container separate from the gun.

The basic idea at work is that before you can combine the gun with the ammo some unlocking steps are necessary.
 
Jakemate said:
Incorrect. A loaded magazine, in the same case as ammo, does not a loaded firearm make. By the letter and case interpretations of the law.

But it better be in a locked case.
HA! ^ beat me.
Click to expand...
This could easily be misinterpreted. You are correct, a loaded magazine stored or carried with the ammo (and without the gun) is not considered a loaded firearm. Locked or not, if a firearm that matches that ammo is in the bag (or case) or if it is in a pouch or pocket that is attached to or a part of the bag or case, then it would be considered loaded. See section (g) above.

Also, you are incorrect. There is no requirement that ammo or empty/loaded magazines be in a locked container.
 
motorman4life said:
This could easily be misinterpreted. You are correct, a loaded magazine stored or carried with the ammo (and without the gun) is not considered a loaded firearm. Locked or not, if a firearm that matches that ammo is in the bag (or case) or if it is in a pouch or pocket that is attached to or a part of the bag or case, then it would be considered loaded. See section (g) above.

Also, you are incorrect. There is no requirement that ammo or empty/loaded magazines be in a locked container.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean to imply that the ammo needed to be locked, just that it is okay for the magazine to be loaded and in the [locked] case with the firearm. As long, (as stated before), it is not attached to the weapon.

(g) A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of
this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell,
consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or
shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but
not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof
attached to the firearm; except that a muzzle-loader firearm shall be
deemed to be loaded when it is capped or primed and has a powder
charge and ball or shot in the barrel or cylinder

"Locked or not, if a firearm that matches that ammo is in the bag (or case) or if it is in a pouch or pocket that is attached to or a part of the bag or case, then it would be considered loaded. See section (g) above."

Not attached to the case, attached to the firearm. You're interpretation is off. IIRC, the case laws are on calgunlaws. Unfortunately, it looks like their site is down right now.

Doesn't mean that you won't be able to arrest/prosecute someone for it. Hell, the DA can prosecute a ham sammich if they want. It just wouldn't hold water in court, if the attorney is halfway competent. Also, another reason why I keep my lawyers card in my wallet.
 
Why carry it if it's not loaded? Might as well have a baseball bat for all the good the gun is going to do you when it's not loaded.:|
I never take my hand gun into CA to much hassle even although I feel "naked" without it:teeth
 
Penal Code section 12026.

I carry at my shop. I don't like leaving my piece. As long as I drive onto my shop property, (private property), I can have it loaded. Which is nice when you get followed from the ATM at 5am.
 
Jakemate said:
Penal Code section 12026.

I carry at my shop. I don't like leaving my piece. As long as I drive onto my shop property, (private property), I can have it loaded. Which is nice when you get followed from the ATM at 5am.
Click to expand...

Do you have a concealed Carry permit? I heard they are really difficult to get in CA
 
I'm with "Jakemate" and "Entropy_Slave" on this one;

but see PC 12025, for special people who are in even more trouble if the ammo is also, merely, in their possession. Hopefully, nobody reading this thread should even be one of those special people.

http://leginfo.ca.gov
 
scotinexcile said:
Do you have a concealed Carry permit? I heard they are really difficult to get in CA
Click to expand...

No. It's about impossible to get one in occupied territory. However, the law allows some leeway.

(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.
 
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