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Hindsight from an expert: torture is counter-productive

For the folks who condone torture in this thread: what do you think happens we an innocent person is abducted and tortured? How does a person prove that they are innocent while being tortured? This is when you start having problems when it comes times to try these people in a court of law. Person X admitted to a certain crime. But guess what? They admitted to committing the crime while being waterboarded. Case dismissed.

Funny how many "true" patriots come out of the woodwork to support something that goes against the very foundation that this country was based on.
 
SuperSixFour said:
For the folks who condone torture in this thread: what do you think happens we an innocent person is abducted and tortured? How does a person prove that they are innocent while being tortured? This is when you start having problems when it comes times to try these people in a court of law. Person X admitted to a certain crime. But guess what? They admitted to committing the crime while being waterboarded. Case dismissed.

Funny how many "true" patriots come out of the woodwork to support something that goes against the very foundation that this country was based on.
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How about a guy captured on the battlefield? How to get information for him?
Tell us.
 
SuperSixFour said:
What if he doesn't know the information you're after?
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Are you sure?
It's 50/50 chance.
Remember Die Hard 3, bomb in the school? Your kid's school. Police captured the guy and they 50% certain that he involved in it.
How to make him talk in time?
 
I'm not advocating torture, but I'm not taking it off the table. Publishing just what the US will and will not do helps our enemies and hinders us.

As I said, no option should be off the table. Different people react to different stimuli. Wrongfully accused is a different matter Really.

I wasn't aware the USA was founded on being against torture. That's a new one.
 
RRR70 said:
Are you sure?
It's 50/50 chance.
Remember Die Hard 3, bomb in the school? Your kid's school. Police captured the guy and they 50% certain that he involved in it.
How to make him talk in time?
Click to expand...

What if you were told you would have to have sex with a 3 year old in order to save the lives of your wife and children, ala some sort of sick Jokeresqe (from Batman) scenario. Does that now mean pedophilia is okay?

You can spend all the time in the world thinking of scenarios where any number of unethical acts might be performed. That does not make them acceptable, and it definitely doesn't mean that they should now be allowed as a part of some standard policy.

Make no mistake: you are using exceptional circumstances to justify the use of torture as a matter of routine.
 
Holeshot said:
I'm not advocating torture, but I'm not taking it off the table. Publishing just what the US will and will not do helps our enemies and hinders us.
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Great. But it's very different things to keep torture on the table as an option under exceptional circumstances, viruses accepting it as a part of normal operating procedures.

Getting back to my earlier example: nukes have always been on the table, under exceptional circumstances. But we sure as hell aren't deploying the Davy Crockett with our platoons.
 
Neither of those address interogations guys...try again.

Interogation isn't a "punishment".

Burning1, I'm not going to argue a point we agree on. I'm merely pushing that I'd not take any option off the table. To get into to specifics of such on BARF, when I'm no expert (and there's plenty of self professed internet experts here) is pointless.
 
How so Yuri? Did I miss some supreme court ruling? No I did not because they refused to listen to the case...
 
Holeshot said:
How so Yuri? Did I miss some supreme court ruling? No I did not because they refused to listen to the case...
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Invoking the doctrine of state secrets will end with the new president.We will see a ruling on this issue making it's way back to the supreme court.
 
This shouldn't be open to discussion.

Officially, the US shouldn't advocate torture. It absolutely should never be an option, on the table, whatever.

Witness how the Japanese fought, based on what they were TOLD was going to happen to them (which WASN'T true). How do you think they'd have fought it we admitted we did these fictional atrocities??! Fack!

Torture should absolutely never be sanctioned by open government. Totally illegal.

Now, if the security forces need to use 'whatever means necessary' to secure us, I'm OK with that. But making it totally illegal keeps it under wraps, they better make DAMN sure they never get caught 'breaking the rules' and if so, we can publicly damn them and separate 'Us' from these 'maverick' secret agents, who used torture against the will of the people and the government. They can be imprisoned (read - relocated and given new identities) and never work for the secret service again. Officially. Nudge nudge, wink wink.

I'm under no illusion that all kinds of cloak and dagger shit has been, and will continue to go on. But I never officially knew about it, and long may that continue. As far as I know, no country I ever lived in, was ever a party to torture. Nudge nudge, wink wink.
 
orture should absolutely never be sanctioned by open government. Totally illegal.
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+1 :thumbup torture is morally wrong, doesnt work, and should never be on the table.
 
Question still open.
How to get information?
 
RRR70 said:
Question still open.
How to get information?
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Maybe use interrogation techniques that don't involve torture?
We somehow, as a country, managed to survive well over 200 years and numerous wars- including two world wars that dwarf any issues we might be having right now, without resorting to torture at any time as a matter of policy.
 
SuperSixFour said:
Maybe use interrogation techniques that don't involve torture?
We somehow, as a country, managed to survive well over 200 years and numerous wars- including two world wars that dwarf any issues we might be having right now, without resorting to torture at any time as a matter of policy.
Click to expand...

Define torture. What is it? Inconvinience? Being unpleasant to somebody? What?
And when you speac of wars, remember that we where fighting an enemy in uniform and had very similar ROE.
It's a bit different now.
 
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