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The official-definitive MotoGP height-weight conspiracy thread/poll

Does Dorna Favor Horse Jockeys?

  • It's a full blown manufacturer-Dorna conspiracy, soon to be Land of OZ.

    Votes: 10 9.3%
  • Short-lightweight riders preferred over average or tall riders.

    Votes: 21 19.6%
  • Rider's over 5'3" 110 lbs. have no business racing

    Votes: 8 7.5%
  • 20-30 lb differences are easily overcome with 200+ HP

    Votes: 8 7.5%
  • It's all about rider ability.

    Votes: 30 28.0%
  • Take away TC and spec tires FTW!

    Votes: 30 28.0%

  • Total voters
    107
Roberts had hopes for grand prix m/c that were altruistic IMO,

Agreed.

but never materialized because of the 2-stroke debacle in the USA and the change in the underclass in AMA. It really is that simple

Not agreed. Roberts used 250GP to develop riders for the first time in 1987 with Kocinski, and the 250 class survived for another 16 years pretty much unchanged; Kurtis Roberts raced in it for Erion a decade after Special K. Two stroke racing in the AMA had almost nothing to do with what Roberts was doing in GP. He considered the series to be too screwed up and the tracks too unsafe, at least for his offspring. That's why in 1991 Rainey's Otsuko 250 team with Junior raced in WERA and not the AMA.

Over time, he could not weather the transition from 2-stroke to 4-stroke in grand prix racing. That is not a criticism, it just was a money issue he could not overcome. He was trying hard to be the ambassador of GP and keep a winning team, but there was little to no support back home.

Roberts' really became a man out of time eventually, he wasn't a guy who fit easily into the role of a factory contractor who also had to be beholding to big sponsors, and the move that created the Evil Empire, nicking Marlboro from Agostini and taking over as the factory Yamaha team, ultimately was the beginning of the end. When he went his own way I think he made two critical errors, thinking he could get enough sponsorship money to keep his program going, and thinking he could build his own motor and actually win with it. That all got worse with the change to four strokes, of course. But I doubt he was ever foolish enough to think he could run a soup-to-nuts world-class operation based on American money.

Coincidentlly, 1985 was the last production 2-stroke street bike in the USA. The first nail was hammered. The AMA promoted SS/SB over 125/250's and the second nail was sunk.

I think that's more than a bit contrived. A look at the AMA record book shows that the series never ran 125s as a championship that I can see. F1 was dumped when there was basically no equipment to run in it, Honda had stopped building RS500s, the TZ750s were a decade old, and much of the field was privateer superbikes - no one can seriously fault the AMA for promoting SB to the premier class. And the addition of SSport was a rousing success, and equally great move. But 250GP was kept on as the #2 professional class all through the '90s.

More than half the legends you mention did time on 250's.

American guys who came up in the '70s had to ride 250s, right, that was the Novice route to a professional license? So Mamola, Spencer, Lawson did that. Rainey only got on a 250 because Roberts put him there, after his first SB championship. Schwantz never rode a 250 to my knowledge (well, he did do one 250 race, at Laguna in '86). I'm not aware of any of the top Aussies racing 250s, other than the 250 street production bikes.

First of all, let's set the record straight. Kocinsky was let go by Kenny Roberts and nobody else. Roberts said that Kocinsky could not control himself, both on the track or off. Roberts thought he could groom Kocinsky for the big show, but apparently Kocinsky suffered from a personality disorder that plagues him to this day. I was hanging on the fence the day Kocinsky blew it at Turn 2 on the first lap of the USGP in 1991 (his debut race on a 500cc at Laguna) and then got arrested for throwing a fucking temper tanturum. That was the beginning of the end for Kocinsky really. Wayne Rainey could (and did) listen to Roberts and was successful until his accident. Roberts had nowhere to turn after the loss of Kocinsky. WSBK was soaking up the talent pool. He recruited Cadalora because Cadalora was the 250 champ.

I have serious doubts about that, it just doesn't hold together. Kocinski has said that he talked about it all well after things cooled down, and Kenny told him it wasn't his decision. That's JK, so you believe what you want. But KR had spent six years developing the guy, three championships in AMA 250, a championship year in GP 250, and two generally-successful learning years in 500. I just can't see Roberts deciding to flush all that, especially with Rainey nearing the end, and he certainly knew what he had with JK long before then.

On the other hand, Marlboro had supported Ago when he was racing for Yamaha at the end of his career, they supported him with his team before it became the factory team, they supported Cadalora when he won his 125 championship in '86, and they supported him for four years while running for Ago in 250, even after they pulled support from Ago's 500 team after the disaster of '89. Marlboro was fine supporting Roberts when he had Rainey and was winning championships, but he was gone and Kocinski wasn't exactly certain to step up to that level. And of course some of JK's behavior must have concerned Marlboro as well (although they apparently tolerated uneven behavior by Italian Cadalora). After Cadalora left in '95 they insisted on Bayle, sponsored by Philip Morris in Chesterfield colors at Aprilia in 250, and also got Capirossi with Rainey, after they had supported him with Pileri Honda since 125 as well. When Loris left for Aprilia after '96 they encouraged Rainey to go after Biaggi, but he went to Kanemoto Honda 250 instead - in Marboro colors, and did so apparently because by then Marlboro was telling him to go there (this according to Rainey's book).

After Rainey's accident, that was it for Roberts. Who else to step in at this point but the sponsors. Roberts sr. was arguably the last bastion of real American Racing influence. When he went, the hole was backfilled by sponsors who wanted their own national riders. I agree this is how things have went since then. But it has always been that was with the exception of Team Roberts.

I think sponsor behavior changed in the early '90s. The major sponsor game really only started in 500 in the '80s, with tobacco giants Marlboro, Lucky Strike and Rothmans, plus secondary players like Gauloises and HB Int'l. Gauloises was really the pattern for satellite team sponsors, a French product supporting a French team running French riders, and that expanded with the arrival of Pons and Garriga in '90, supported by Campsa and Ducados. The shift with major sponsors that started around the same time Dorna arrived seems to have more to do with target marketing as much as anything, growing sophistication in the advertising process. The watershed change that occurred was sponsors then cared more about a passport than a winning resume, which is what drove 250 Euros into factory seats, even if they couldn't deliver championships. That in turn gave us five years of Doohan domination, in my opinion.

I completely agree. But I don't think anyone is manipulating the grid to exclude taller/heavier riders.

Not as such, they'd probably prefer riders a bit more... normal. But they also don't do anything to help larger (in GP terms) riders either, to level the playing field, because they do not view it as in their interest to handicap the little guys, who are pretty much what they wanted - home-grown Europeans, mostly from their core markets of Spain and Italy. That's what it all comes back to, the desire to develop riders within the series and most especially European winners. 15 years ago I doubt they had any thought that these guys would eventually weigh 125 pounds or so, but that's a "price" they're willing to pay, because it's what they always wanted. This year so far every race has been won by either an Italian or a Spaniard, and they hold the top four positions in the championship - who cares if the race winners average 130 pounds and perhaps wouldn't do all that winning on superbikes? It's not like their core fanbase cares, or maybe even notices.

The problem with MotoGP is not that they are trying to produce midget racing, but rather keep themselves distanced from the prodution classes of SS/SB. This has a debilatating effect in moto racing because the under classes are all based on production bikes, even in europe...

It just takes time for the gap between club racing/national racing and international GP to close again to where it was in the 70's and early 80's. I wish they would settle on a friggin displacement and stick with it from now on.

World championship racing has been in alignment with the national championships - the problem with GP is that it has been the WSB series and not them. And you're right, GP can't afford to get too isolated, that's really what happened when the series retreated to Spain, Italy and Japan with their archaic two strokes in the mid-late '90s. MotoGP saved them, and it wasn't just the bikes, it was also that top guys from the SB world moved over as well, so it at least looked like a true world championship again. But this rampant midgetry and 250 promotion and 800cc electronically-controlled bikes stuff is quickly eroding that superior position, and it may be that only the Phlegminis' Mussolini-like incompetence and Italian nationalism is saving them to this point. Moto2 was a massive step in the right direction - which is exactly why I fear they will end up undoing that...
 
I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked 3 times now. If the bikes had changed in a manner, say to 1200s instead of 800s, that catered more to a slightly heavier rider and featherweights were having a harder time being competitive (more Americans maybe, less spanish/italian riders) would you still be as bothered?

No. I don't think they could actually build a bike that would make really large guys (in racing terms, more than the sweet spot at 145-160 pounds) have an advantage. And I don't think 800cc in itself makes for a material advantage for the little guys, it's the nature of the powerband of those bikes, the electronics necessary to control that, and the super-sticky Bridgestone tires, combined with a half-dozen years of 990-based bike development focused on ex-125/250 riders. Ultimately you get a bike that works like a 250 and doesn't disadvantage a lack of physical strength, which also means it makes small size / light weight an advantage.

As for your other claims to my intentions, here are a few basic stats that might clear things up for you a bit. First, all of the superbike and 500/MotoGP world champions, then the world championships won, by nationality:

USA - 14 (37.8%)
UK - 9 (24.3%)
Italy - 6 (16.2%)
Australia - 5 (13.5%)
A/O countries - 3 (8.1%)

USA - 24 (28.9%)
UK - 24 (28.9%)
Italy - 20 (24.1%)
Australia - 12 (14.5%)
A/O countries - 3 (3.6%)

Now, what GP - Dorna, the factories, the major sponsors - are doing basically excludes three of the four countries that produced essentially all of the best rider talent in the history of the sport, by requiring that one comes up through 125/250 and is as small or smaller than all those previous champions. The US, Australia and the UK are supersport/superbike countries, so produce riders fundamentally out of sync with GP today (although, for some reason, they were completely in sync 20 years ago). THAT'S my issue here. And why are they doing it, why have they been doing it? To produce Spanish and Japanese premier class champions, as far as I can tell (Italians are okay, too), who won nothing before they started doing it, and... next to nothing since. But they ARE getting closer, I suppose, practice makes perfect...
 
So seriously all this talk about bias towards 125lbs riders...
Besides Pedrosa I'm not aware of any 800cc GP racer under 140/145lbs.
Even Pedrosa I bet is more like 130ish.
So?

edit:
I looked on MotoGP.com The weight that each GP racer shows there makes no sense. Capirossi is shown as 130lbs. Which is ridiculous as I'm exactly his height 5'5" and last year at MotoGP I saw him up close [basically sat few feet from him] and he looked like he had a wider heavier frame. And I was 147lbs at the time. There is no way he was 17lbs less than me.
I remember being 130lbs. I just don't buy it.
 
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Ultimately you get a bike that works like a 250 and doesn't disadvantage a lack of physical strength, which also means it makes small size / light weight an advantage.

Have you ever roadracedraced motorcycles at any level? Because it really sounds like you are completely talking out of your ass.
 
Kocinski has said that he talked about it all well after things cooled down, and Kenny told him it wasn't his decision. That's JK, so you believe what you want. But KR had spent six years developing the guy, three championships in AMA 250, a championship year in GP 250, and two generally-successful learning years in 500. I just can't see Roberts deciding to flush all that, especially with Rainey nearing the end, and he certainly knew what he had with JK long before then.

On the other hand, Marlboro had supported Ago when he was racing for Yamaha at the end of his career, they supported him with his team before it became the factory team, they supported Cadalora when he won his 125 championship in '86, and they supported him for four years while running for Ago in 250, even after they pulled support from Ago's 500 team after the disaster of '89. Marlboro was fine supporting Roberts when he had Rainey and was winning championships, but he was gone and Kocinski wasn't exactly certain to step up to that level. And of course some of JK's behavior must have concerned Marlboro as well (although they apparently tolerated uneven behavior by Italian Cadalora). After Cadalora left in '95 they insisted on Bayle, sponsored by Philip Morris in Chesterfield colors at Aprilia in 250, and also got Capirossi with Rainey, after they had supported him with Pileri Honda since 125 as well. When Loris left for Aprilia after '96 they encouraged Rainey to go after Biaggi, but he went to Kanemoto Honda 250 instead - in Marboro colors, and did so apparently because by then Marlboro was telling him to go there (this according to Rainey's book).

Roberts said managing Rainey and Kocinski during their two years together was "just really difficult. That was probably the worst combination I had, when John came up to ride 500s and Wayne was winning. Wayne didn't particularly enjoy John. And it got worse-finally came to a head. I had to basically move John out of the team. Because once your top guy goes, 'I'm not riding if that guy's riding,' there's not much you can do."

You have confused some facts. Kocinsky was removed from the team at the end of '92 and Rainey raced one more season after JK's departure for Roberts until his accident. You read too much into the sponsorship and leave out alot of unknowns that would deconstruct a conspiracy to promote euro riders, such as Rainey's basic lack of team management skills and political clout with sponsor/s. Also, there were no American riders really standing out to Roberts in 1995/96. You think he should have stayed and recruited Edwards, Polen, Russell?? WSBK was the baine of the USA and MotoGP contenders quite honestly, and it has been ever since. I don't know where I read it, but I remember Roberts commenting that WSBK series took what talent was coming out of the USA and the GP underclasses were becoming exclusivily european.
 
Have you ever roadracedraced motorcycles at any level? Because it really sounds like you are completely talking out of your ass.

I've had my RZ350 at the track and my SVs...... the SVs was easier to ride. :|
 
I've had my RZ350 at the track and my SVs...... the SVs was easier to ride. :|

I remember my first "race simulation" at Thill before I got my CCS licence.
8laps riding 10/10 braking with brake markers.
When I pulled in to the pits I simply did not have enough strength to get of the bike. And that was just a fairly stock 929RR race bike.
I realize I was a too tense newb and I had pretty crap cardio.
Still I can only imagine what it takes to brake from 180mph+ to 80mph for 40laps on a frigging GP bike...
 
Roberts said managing Rainey and Kocinski during their two years together was "just really difficult. That was probably the worst combination I had, when John came up to ride 500s and Wayne was winning. Wayne didn't particularly enjoy John. And it got worse-finally came to a head. I had to basically move John out of the team. Because once your top guy goes, 'I'm not riding if that guy's riding,' there's not much you can do."

I'm not really buying that quote, I don't see Roberts saying, "had to basically move John out of the team" if he meant he was firing him, KR is more direct than that, and I really don't think Rainey ever said, "it's either him or me", that's very inconsistent with what Wayne is quoted saying in this article, and also in his book, and it seems totally unlike Wayne. And what I said before was that JK says Kenny later told him it wasn't his decision, as if there wasn't a definitive take on it at the time, and I don't remember there being one. And I kind of doubt that Kenny would have said publicly that the sponsor was firing Kocinski, he seemed at that time like a guy who really wanted to look like and be in charge. I'm certainly not claiming Kenny was totally sold on Special K, but that's a long way from thinking he was better off with unproven 500 rookie Cadalora. As Wayne said of Luca in his book, "He was the least-challenging of any teammate".

You have confused some facts. Kocinsky was removed from the team at the end of '92 and Rainey raced one more season after JK's departure for Roberts until his accident. You read too much into the sponsorship and leave out alot of unknowns that would deconstruct a conspiracy to promote euro riders, such as Rainey's basic lack of team management skills and political clout with sponsor/s. Also, there were no American riders really standing out to Roberts in 1995/96. You think he should have stayed and recruited Edwards, Polen, Russell?? WSBK was the baine of the USA and MotoGP contenders quite honestly, and it has been ever since. I don't know where I read it, but I remember Roberts commenting that WSBK series took what talent was coming out of the USA and the GP underclasses were becoming exclusivily european.

The GP underclasses were already exclusively European - except for the Japanese invasion that happened in 1993, that is. I think a lot of people probably felt at the end of 1994 that three of the best young riders in the world were Gobert, Corser and Edwards, but no one offered them GP contracts. And Chandler and Kocinski also weren't offered contracts, so that's five very good American and Australian riders shunned by GP. Beattie lost his ride at Roberts, and went on in '95 to be Doohan's only serious challenger, on a Suzuki. In mid-'94 Rainey signed Abe to a long-term deal when he was still a teenager, which seemed largely driven by his desire to ingratiate himself to the factory. And they stuck him on Team Roberts in '95 instead, replacing Battie. Honda gave Team Pileri a 500 for Capirossi, who was supported by Marlboro. Itoh was back on a factory Honda again, for a winless 3rd year, Barros got an NSR, etc. Then when Cadaora left Roberts at the end of '95 Marlboro insisted on Bayle, who had finished 15th in 250 on a factory Aprilia - tell me how that one makes any sense.

At that time guys racing in the AMA would have loved a good WSB ride, and some of them were getting them - Corser, Edwards, Hale. But given a choice, any of them would have rather gone to GP. At that point the more experienced guys were starting to make good money, so part of the problem for them was they'd possibly have to take a paycut to go to the world championships. But there were clearly political and financial changes in GP that meant the focus was on European and Japanese riders. It didn't seem like they could get the Americans and Australians out of the series fast enough.
 
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Ok, I haven't read the entire thread but going on the initial question...

I always had to race against people smaller/lighter than me. Every straight they would get at least 3-4 lengths; it was extremely fustrating spending an entire race getting around a slower guy, who would then simply pass on the next long straight...

Therefore, I am all for weight being added to the lighter guys bikes. It's MotoGP isn't it? Supposed to be the ultimate for bike riders. Well then, the field should be even for all. A guy like Pedrobot should have weight added to his bike where Nicky/Spies should be where everyone else has to get to.

That way, all are equal weight wise, & being small is no longer an advantage. So let the best rider (not the lightest) win. End of story...
 
I don't think Pedrosas size is such a big advantage.
No to say that 20lbs less wont make a difference. But there is definitely a downside to his small frame.

He still has to deal with the same physical effort all the others racers do.
Racing a MotoGP race is no joke. And Pedrosas forearms are about the size of Spies wrists.
If you have never experienced braking from high speed with a brake marker you can't even begin to understand what it takes to use carbon/carbon brakes. For 40+ laps sometimes in 90F from speeds in excess of 200mph.

I think I have a pretty vague idea and to me the stamina and the level of fitness that all MotoGP racers have is amazing.

You are wasting your time and bytes as (clearly) House is the epitome of THE "Armchair Racer". He has Zero clue what it is to race, much less race (average) of 120kms. When Yoshikawa got off the bike... well, for anyone that saw that... he was wrecked. I doubt many here would look any better in racing a superstock 600 for 120kms at their sprint race pace.

FWIW, Roberts sr. is a bit shorter than DP and when he raced was at 130 pounds.... and of course, using the karing anology "10 pounds worth bla bla a lap"... then Mccoy should have been a big time challanger...

Regardless, it is moot point.. because even if spies and simoncito become day in day out challangers or either win the WC... there will always be some sort of fabricated excuse - such as "it is an exception... bla bla"
 
Ok, I haven't read the entire thread but going on the initial question...

I always had to race against people smaller/lighter than me. Every straight they would get at least 3-4 lengths; it was extremely fustrating spending an entire race getting around a slower guy, who would then simply pass on the next long straight...

Therefore, I am all for weight being added to the lighter guys bikes. It's MotoGP isn't it? Supposed to be the ultimate for bike riders. Well then, the field should be even for all. A guy like Pedrobot should have weight added to his bike where Nicky/Spies should be where everyone else has to get to.

That way, all are equal weight wise, & being small is no longer an advantage. So let the best rider (not the lightest) win. End of story...

Equal playing fields means equal equipment. This logic makes some sense but when looked at in other realms the irrational is more noticeable. In baseball if you can't hit as many home runs as another player, because he has naturally larger muscles, that shouldn't mean you are given steroids to even things out.

Racers do all they can to be in great shape as well as to reduce weight. Horse jockies do the same. Its just a nature of the sport.
 
....
Regardless, it is moot point.. because even if spies and simoncito become day in day out challangers or either win the WC... there will always be some sort of fabricated excuse - such as "it is an exception... bla bla"
Yep. Despite Marco Simoncelli winning the 250 championship and despite riders like Spies beating a whole bunch of dudes smaller than him, particularly in WSBK, some dang mysterious rational will appear. Yamaha hasn't exactly dominated WSBK since Spies moved.

NOT A MIDGET:
AU518828-300x270.jpg
 
Well, House will be gratified with this news, since he's been predicting it since the start of the season:
This just in:

Further weight reduction for twin-cylinder machines from the next SBK round at Silverstone

Following the official results of Race 2 held at Brno (Czech Republic) today, the FIM SBK Technical Director informs that the average value of the event averages over the last three events of the 2010 FIM Superbike World Championship, held at Miller Motorsports Park (USA), Misano (San Marino) and Brno (Czech Republic), favours the 1000cc 4-cylinder motorcycles by more than 5 points (see the attached document issued by the official time keeping).
Therefore from the next SBK event, that will take place at Silverstone (UK) on 30-31 July and 1 August, the new minimum weight for 1200cc 2-cylinder motorcycles shall be 162 Kg, a reduction of 3 Kg as stipulated in Article 2.4.4.2 (Minimum Weight Adjustments) of the FIM rulebook.
The minimum weight for 1000cc 4-cylinder motorcycles shall remain unchanged at 162 Kg.
 
Equal playing fields means equal equipment. This logic makes some sense but when looked at in other realms the irrational is more noticeable. In baseball if you can't hit as many home runs as another player, because he has naturally larger muscles, that shouldn't mean you are given steroids to even things out. Racers do all they can to be in great shape as well as to reduce weight. Horse jockies do the same. Its just a nature of the sport.

Sorry I don't get that part. Try looking at it from a “big-person's” view. When I was in tip-top shape I couldn't get below 230lbs w/o VERY serious effort (I’m 6' 3" & very -big-, I should have played football or something; no I choose to race motorcycles. My avatar to left is an example.)

I raced against several people who were at least 100lbs lighter than I, = ~40hp equivalent HP advantage (that’s my wild guess.) Every race, they were holding me up. So, I’d have to get by via some hairball maneuver; then I would simply get passed back on the next straight because of the weight advantage. We both rode the same machine (AFM Stock Production), & I would get furious to see someone ride (what appeared to be) not as hard as I, yet just pass easily the next straight. I even thought about cheating but never did - course that's just me. Bad enough they had a huge weight advantage, but many were cheating too (I did win a few protests against little guys running big-bores.)

In various car racing, many cars are given weights to even out whatever advantage one may have over another weight wise (or horsepower wise); it‘s very common in car racing. Why not motorcycle racing? In my view in MotoGP (or all serious bike racing for that matter) -ALL- bike/rider combo’s should be weighed before & after every race. Everyone should start within a few pounds of each other (assuming some slight fudge-factor), so the lighter guys (Pedrosa, etc.) should have weights put on the bike in a place Honda likes. The same goes for anyone else in the same boat; ALL riders/bike combos should be approximately the same weight.

I firmly believe this would even the playing field & make the racing closer, & maybe show a smaller riders shortcomings which wouldn’t have been seen otherwise. The bike’s mechanicals are not included in this equation, only the total weight of bike & rider, say 410lbs. (or whatever) is minimum weight for bike & rider. If they can’t get to the minimum weight, add a weight or two where the manufacturer specifies (or maybe where the FIM specifies?)

It would even the playing field, & has been done this way in car racing for a long time. Why not?

edit: I just notice the above post, where the FIM is doing it now in WSBK. See?

-ebd
 
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genetic size is a advantage/disadvantage in every sport. every single one. why this bugs people i dont know except for clear xenophobia and the lack of a top usa rider for awhile.
 
Equal playing fields means equal equipment. This logic makes some sense but when looked at in other realms the irrational is more noticeable. In baseball if you can't hit as many home runs as another player, because he has naturally larger muscles, that shouldn't mean you are given steroids to even things out..

What it kind of comes down to is, do you want a sport which considers light weigh a "skill", and not one that improves the performance of the athlete himself, but improves the performance of the machine that the athlete has to work with? And in a sport which imposes a minimum weight on that machine, in large part to balance/equalize competition to a degree?

By equalizing the impact on the machine of acceleration and braking and cornering by equalizing rider weight, one is not equalizing talent or equipment, the best rider and/or the best machine should outperform lesser ones, and to a degree greater than without the weight minimum. And racing is a competition of man and machine, not just man, so no one wants the bike version of IROC in MotoGP. I think spec motors in Moto2 is about as close to that as any of us want to see.

The concept of a minimum package weight is hardly foreign to racing, they do it at the very top of the sport, F1, and that's a form of racing where driver weight is a much smaller percentage of the package. And they do it in 125 GP, and would you have them stop doing it there? The reason they do it there is because of rider health, they found riders were almost starving themselves to gain a small edge, and potentially to a point where it may have made them dangerous to themselves and others on the track.

Racers do all they can to be n great shape as well as to reduce weight. Horse jockies do the same. Its just a nature of the sport.

An apt comparison, and not just because of size in absolute terms. In horse racing ballast is used to equalize rider weights, or to handicap horses of superior performance to make the racing closer. And one simply cannot argue that top jockeys are the best horse riders in the world, rather they are the best who are also small and light enough to compete. There is likely a lesson in there that MotoGP might wisely consider...
 
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Well, House will be gratified with this news, since he's been predicting it since the start of the season:

:laughing Just three more races and they get to enlarge those damned restrictors as well...
 
genetic size is a advantage/disadvantage in every sport. every single one. why this bugs people i dont know except for clear xenophobia and the lack of a top usa rider for awhile.

It's funny how someone who seem utterly incapable to proposing a detailed, rational argument in defense of his position on this subject ends up resorting to name-calling and fabricating simplistic motivations.

It's sort of like you picking up a very attractive woman and talking her into bed, and then, being unable to get it up or to perform in any way, you start calling her ugly and blaming it all on her... :thumbdown
 
In my view in MotoGP (or all serious bike racing for that matter) -ALL- bike/rider combo’s should be weighed before & after every race. Everyone should start within a few pounds of each other (assuming some slight fudge-factor), so the lighter guys (Pedrosa, etc.) should have weights put on the bike in a place Honda likes. The same goes for anyone else in the same boat; ALL riders/bike combos should be approximately the same weight.

I firmly believe this would even the playing field & make the racing closer, & maybe show a smaller riders shortcomings which wouldn’t have been seen otherwise. The bike’s mechanicals are not included in this equation, only the total weight of bike & rider, say 410lbs. (or whatever) is minimum weight for bike & rider. If they can’t get to the minimum weight, add a weight or two where the manufacturer specifies (or maybe where the FIM specifies?)

I don't really like a minimum package weight concept, because manufacturers can still hire lighter riders to reduce costs of lightening their machines, or if their machine just isn't down to the minimum in any case. I think it makes more sense to establish a minimum rider weight, say, 70 kg (154 pounds), and ballast the bike with the amount that the rider is below this. Then the riders could be weighed several times per year during race weekends, all unannounced, and the bike's ballasting would be based on that until the next weigh-in. So the manufacturer is dealing with bike weight as an entirely separate matter, and a rider's gear doesn't factor into it either, and cheating would be more difficult.

The little guys still retain any aerodynamic advantage they get from smaller size, and the bigger guys keep any advantage they have from greater strength. But rider weight is basically out, or at least to the extent that it doesn't impact rider performance in other forms of roadracing (there is no need to equalize for 200-pound riders, because they will never work their way up to to MotoGP anyway). And I think the teams should be able to take the FIM-issued ballast and put it anywhere they want. As long as it's not down the john...
 
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