• There has been a recent cluster of spammers accessing BARFer accounts and posting spam. To safeguard your account, please consider changing your password. It would be even better to take the additional step of enabling 2 Factor Authentication (2FA) on your BARF account. Read more here.

What the BLIP?!?! Downshifting Terminology / Techniques to Start Research On

Advice you make not like but non the less.

Blog less, ride more. Don't over think everything, some things really are just like that and require patience, time and getting out and doing it even in small increments. Keep your questions simple and to the point, you'll get plenty of great feedback from barf.
 
TheRiddler said:
Personally, I only downshift to first gear around 5mph. First gear is so short that it's very difficult to downshift into without lurching.
Click to expand...

That's why, when riding a Harley, ya' gotta' make that loud, annoying growl to rev the RPMs for 1st on the way to the stop. Then ya' gotta do it again a coupla' times while stopped, to pretend the bike needs to do that for some reason. Then again, just prior to actually letting out the clutch, and THEN during take off.

We like to think of it as Audio Feedback.

:cool
 
Always ride in the gear that matches your speed, in most cases that means that you have to look far ahead and anticipate the flow of traffic. Go easy on the controls, it's about finesse not speed.
 
I don't engage 1st if I'm downshifting to a stop. After second it's all brakes. You may find yourself at a light that just turns green as you get to the line, in which case you can engage 1st to maintain speed or accelerate. No lurching. Your clutch cable may need adjusting, but remember, the friction zone is your friend.
 
notjust4girrlz said:
Thank you for taking the time to write the detailed explanation. I'll put it to use the next time I head out (if the rain ever stops).

Yes, I can drive a manual transmission car. It has been several years, but I have no recollection of the car ever lurching, and I'm certain I never did any equivalent of blipping the car.

The passenger's helmet only clicks mine occasionally at the end of a stop, never during the sort of "re-acceleration" after slowing for a red stoplight turning green that in other situations causes the lurching.

While I appreciate people's concerns for my passenger, the idea that they think I do not worry about him is very disconcerting (Also addressed in my response to spdt509 earlier today.). Who would not feel horrible if their passenger died, no matter how much experience they had? I am not suggesting more experience isn't better, and I can understand more experienced riders wanting to warn newer riders, but saying a year or 10,000 miles of experience is needed seems random to me, other than perhaps those are numbers where on the basis of that narrative information alone others might be less likely to question a person's actual riding level. What would be more constructive would be a list of skills, courses, or tests that could be used to assess a capability level for various travel scenarios. I haven't had time to explore the section of the forum that deals with passengers, but definitely plan to. In any case, I neither had nor have any plans to take him on the highway any time soon.
Click to expand...

Argue less, listen more. You have a paltry 1000 miles under your belt. You're risking your passenger's life and don't even know it. Good on you for wanting to learn more, and BARF is a terrific resource to be able to add to your knowledge. But right now, you have NO idea how much you don't know... and we were ALL at that point when we were learning how to ride. No one is saying you don't care about your passenger, but we ARE telling you that you simply do NOT have the skills to be carrying a passenger. As a point of reference, I regularly do Newbie rides... and to "qualify" to go on my Newbie rides, I ask that people have a minimum of 1000 miles under their belt, because that's about the point where they can safely navigate a twisty road without having to continuously think about braking and shifting.

By the time you put 10,000 miles on your bike, you should be experienced enough to be able to safely and responsibly carry a passenger. And if you're at ALL responsible, you'll be cringing at having carried a passenger at this point... which is what we're all doing.

Do yourself a favor, and pick up Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II DVD, and Nick Ienatsch's Sport Riding Techniques. Don't watch/read just once... re-watch and re-read on a regular basis... as you ride more, the pieces start falling into place, and you continue learning more each time you re-visit them.

Keep practicing, and find yourself an experienced mentor to go out riding with... it'll help a LOT.
 
I never down shift to 1st unless I'm down to like 1 mph. I usually roll up to the stop, put my foot down and shift to 1st while stopped. If traffic starts moving I just let the clutch back out in 2nd and keep going.(but I'm also on a 1000 v-twin) Not sure what the stall speed in 2nd gear is on a 250. A good way to learn just how slow you can dog off the light in 2nd gear is to find an empty lot and practice slowing down in 2nd gear then feathering the clutch out and re-accelerating without ever hitting 1st. (just be carful not to drop it if the engine stalls) You may be surprised at how slow the bike will still handle 2nd without stalling. Maybe gixergirl can chime in on the stall speed for 2nd on a 250?
 
angelsndevils said:
I never down shift to 1st unless I'm down to like 1 mph.
Click to expand...

kelvin8 said:
I don't engage 1st if I'm downshifting to a stop. .
Click to expand...

Really? not downshifting to first? I remember 1 on 250 is kind of slow, but I still was able to make ~20mph on it. I was always downshifting and riding on every gear while stopping. It feels much more controllable than using just brakes alone.
 
p4i1 said:
Really? not downshifting to first? I remember 1 on 250 is kind of slow, but I still was able to make ~20mph on it. I was always downshifting and riding on every gear while stopping. It feels much more controllable than using just brakes alone.
Click to expand...

It can be done but whats the point? With a big BLIP on the throttle I could probably engage 1st at 50 mph but again whats the point? Unless you like that thrust shift feeling 2nd gear engine braking works just fine down to about 5 mph. At that point the clutch comes in and its all brakes.
 
angelsndevils said:
I never down shift to 1st unless I'm down to like 1 mph. I usually roll up to the stop, put my foot down and shift to 1st while stopped. If traffic starts moving I just let the clutch back out in 2nd and keep going.(but I'm also on a 1000 v-twin) Not sure what the stall speed in 2nd gear is on a 250. A good way to learn just how slow you can dog off the light in 2nd gear is to find an empty lot and practice slowing down in 2nd gear then feathering the clutch out and re-accelerating without ever hitting 1st. (just be carful not to drop it if the engine stalls) You may be surprised at how slow the bike will still handle 2nd without stalling. Maybe gixergirl can chime in on the stall speed for 2nd on a 250?
Click to expand...

On the Gixxer, I'll come up to a stop light and downshift to 2nd, and if I come to a complete stop, sit in neutral til right before the light changes. I almost never downshift to first and let the clutch out... maybe if I'm less than 10mph and the light changes and I'm not coming to a stop at all.
On the li'l ninjette, the only time I'm in 1st is during the race start, and I want to say Turn 11 at Sears Point/Infineon, and Turn 2 at Buttonwillow... can't imagine being in 1st for any other corners (at B-Willow, Sears, T-Hill)... even 5 at T-Hill I'm in 2nd... and sure, you can chug along pretty slow on a ninjette, but why? Clutch in, come up to the stop, use your front brake. You're going so slowly in traffic at that point, that you don't NEED to use engine braking to slow you down, and the front brake is much smoother and more controlled.
 
angelsndevils said:
It can be done but whats the point? With a big BLIP on the throttle I could probably engage 1st at 50 mph but again whats the point? Unless you like that thrust shift feeling 2nd gear engine braking works just fine down to about 5 mph. At that point the clutch comes in and its all brakes.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
ToraTora said:
If you haven't yet then do yourself a huge favor and get David Hough's (pronounced Huff) Proficient Motorcycling book and spend a lot of hours with it. Weeks would be good too, and then use it as review. Years later you'll still be learning from this book. David teaches you great street smarts.

After that check out Keith Codes' Twist of the Wrist library of books and videos. These are some of the best learning resources around. He applies the scientific method to riding, and has learned an astonishing amount about how to ride a motorcycle.
Click to expand...

Thank you!!! That is exactly the kind of information sought with my post - starting points in the sea of motorcycle information. And I think I've seen both of them mentioned in at least one or two other threads on here, so that bumps them up in the chronology.
 
Last edited:
Of course, there's always the ever so slight chance that you're just not being smooooooooth enough letting the clutch out. Probably 99/100 times that the bike lurches on downshift can be solved by releasing the clutch more slowly, carefully, and smooooooooothly.

Blipping is a technique that adds another complicating factor to something that you're already having trouble doing well with less things to worry about. I'd stay simple and focus on the feel of eeeeeeeeeeeasing the clutch out with better skill. Get smooth doing it the simple way first, then add more complications later.

Good explanation of what to do above should you decide you want to go the blipping route. Better get it blipping right, tho... you wind in too much throttle and continue to let the clutch out improperly (as you're sometimes doing now) and instead of a lurch you'll get sudden acceleration. I'd rather get a lurch when learning to downshift smoothly than sudden acceleration.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top