Young Lesbians Shot in Texas

[Melissa]

I laughed because you made it sound like you assumed I have never been in that situation and therefore it was difficult for me to understand how it feels.

I understand that the reason for a crime might disgust you more if somebody attacked a minority, however I disagree the punishment should be greater just because it is labeled as a hate crime. Judges already have some latitude for sentencing depending on the situation, and I feel that is sufficient.

OK, I can see how you thought that I made an assumption about you.
Most crimes disgust me but I do admit that when I am working with a perp. who assaulted/killed someone that is included in the hate crime category I get a bit, maybe a little bit emotional. The further I continue my assessment with these individuals the deeper I hear pure prejudicial hatred. Then again, same with the gang members who I work with-deep historical hatred.

Humans-can we evolve any more quickly?

 

[Melissa]

One more thought........
Punishment of a crime can act as a deterrent for future behavior but I haven't seen that work too well.

 

[planegray]

Not a paradox, common sense, self control and respect, something not taught to kids these days. Example, do you still call those folks Mr. and or Mr's such and such as you did as a kid? I do. I wont call them by the first name unless I am invited to do so. (Just an example)

I don't see it as a paradox, more as people not respecting ones right to an opinion. Case in point. When I was young, 10 or so, I had a friend who was black, I said the N word in front of him. I have never done that again, it is not in my vernacular anymore. I remember the look on his face as if it was yesterday, I will never forget it. But I also treat in Kind, I will respect you until I am disrespected, then I file you away in the asshat folder

Oh great, now I'm in an asshat folder





(+1 to the other stuff )

 

[Ant]

OK, I can see how you thought that I made an assumption about you.
Most crimes disgust me but I do admit that when I am working with a perp. who assaulted/killed someone that is included in the hate crime category I get a bit, maybe a little bit emotional. The further I continue my assessment with these individuals the deeper I hear pure prejudicial hatred. Then again, same with the gang members who I work with-deep historical hatred.

Humans-can we evolve any more quickly?

Off topic maybe:

What % of your clientel would you say are just void of morals and would be considered sociopaths?

 

[afm199]

One more thought........
Punishment of a crime can act as a deterrent for future behavior but I haven't seen that work too well.

That's what makes the death penalty desirable.

 

[R1-Limited]

Oh great, now I'm in an asshat folder





(+1 to the other stuff )

ya ave yet to show me any red ass, I only have one dolt on the ignore list

 

[mean dad]

One more thought........
Punishment of a crime can act as a deterrent for future behavior but I haven't seen that work too well.

I read a report once that stated the fact that punishment is doled out so infrequently and discriminantly is the cause of it not working.
Tell someone that they have a 50% chance of doing 5 years for something illegal, they'll take the gamble. Tell someone they WILL do 2 years, no questions asked, if they do the crime, the chances that they'll do the crime go way down.

 

[Melissa]

Off topic maybe:

What % of your clientel would you say are just void of morals and would be considered sociopaths?

Not off topic imho.
If punishment did act as a deterrant then it does not work in the slightest for the category of individuals who fit the symptomology of antisocial personality disorder. Formerly referred to as a sociopath.
The kids here are under 18 and can't be diagnosed with antisocial personalty d/o. Most of the repeat offenders here are diagnosed with conduct disorder. Conduct disorder in most cases moves on to antisocial personality d/o, difference being the age of the individual.
Morality is not included in the diagnostic criterion for conduct d/o nor is it included in criterion for antisocial personality d/o.
So I wouldn't say the kids here are devoid of morals.

 

[Melissa]

That's what makes the death penalty desirable.

agreed but the murderers here are not given the death penalty.

 

[Melissa]

I read a report once that stated the fact that punishment is doled out so infrequently and discriminantly is the cause of it not working.
Tell someone that they have a 50% chance of doing 5 years for something illegal, they'll take the gamble. Tell someone they WILL do 2 years, no questions asked, if they do the crime, the chances that they'll do the crime go way down.

that's the difference right there regarding how the fear of punishment can be a deterrant.
Personally I would not do the crime no matter what the punishment might be if I got caught.
I am not criminogenic.

 

[Asphaultnaut]

how many young couples or individuals have been shot and killed since the story and OP posted, and not a single f**k was given or BARF thread posted?

 

[afm199]

how many young couples or individuals have been shot and killed since the story and OP posted, and not a single f**k was given or BARF thread posted?

42!

 

[mean dad]

how many young couples or individuals have been shot and killed since the story and OP posted, and not a single f**k was given or BARF thread posted?

how many murders were commited where the victims shared a common bond with a barfer? more of a bond besides being human, I mean.
pretty sure a thread was started for a motorcyclist that was shot at, probably becasue we're all motorcyclists, and it relates to us a bit more than the norm.

but you're right, let's start a thread for every single news story posted anywhere, on any news organization's website.

 

[Melissa]

how many young couples or individuals have been shot and killed since the story and OP posted, and not a single f**k was given or BARF thread posted?

Rick-I give a fuck about alot of things most of which I do not post on BARF. What is your concern?

 

[teg916]

Extreme example: Extermination of millions in concentration camps. Is that the same as murder? Or is there a place in law for moral outrage? Should there be?

I think in your extreme example, the perp(s) would get the death penalty in our current justice system. As far as I know that is our harshest punishment that we have regardless of the crime.

Regardless of what punishment we see fit here I don't see that it should change between somebody who was trying to exterminate a race VS somebody that just enjoyed killing and randomly rounded up millions of people then killed them.

I think under our current laws both of these people would be considered serial killers Do you think we should destinguishe between these two? And why?

 

[Asphaultnaut]

the point being, when all these folks try to pretend otherwise, that because the aforementioned couple was gay, it suddenly became more important to find the meaning and reasoning for their deaths than everyone else who bought it since then.

plenty of hetero people murdered since then, but it'd be pretty lame for all hetero folk to start a thread about that with only that connection, wouldn't it?

Homo uber alles?

how many murders were commited where the victims shared a common bond with a barfer? more of a bond besides being human, I mean.
pretty sure a thread was started for a motorcyclist that was shot at, probably becasue we're all motorcyclists, and it relates to us a bit more than the norm.

but you're right, let's start a thread for every single news story posted anywhere, on any news organization's website.

 

[afm199]

I think in your extreme example, the perp(s) would get the death penalty in our current justice system. As far as I know that is our harshest punishment that we have regardless of the crime.

Regardless of what punishment we see fit here I don't see that it should change between somebody who was trying to exterminate a race VS somebody that just enjoyed killing and randomly rounded up millions of people then killed them.

I think under our current laws both of these people would be considered serial killers Do you think we should destinguishe between these two? And why?

Extremes point out issues.

You point is clear, you see no difference.

There is a difference. Just as moral outrage at someone stealing a loaf of bread (misdemeanor wrist slap) is greater for someone stealing billions of dollars ( Bernie Madoff). The crime is identical, theft, the punishment greater. Similarly, moral judgments are made over murder, murder two, manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Similarly moral outrage over wiping out several million people of the same religion might be greater than wiping out four chosen victims. Both are serial killings.

If you have no moral outrage, then it's moot.

 

[afm199]

the point being, when all these folks try to pretend otherwise, that because the aforementioned couple was gay, it suddenly became more important to find the meaning and reasoning for their deaths than everyone else who bought it since then.

plenty of hetero people murdered since then, but it'd be pretty lame for all hetero folk to start a thread about that with only that connection, wouldn't it?

Homo uber alles?

So start a thread over a hetero killing that offends you. This thread started out over the sadness of a couple kids getting shot and one murdered. You seem to want it to be an opportunity to display your disdain for "preferential treatment." Perhaps if the killer was also a lesbian you will be ok with it.

 

[planegray]

the point being, when all these folks try to pretend otherwise, that because the aforementioned couple was gay, it suddenly became more important to find the meaning and reasoning for their deaths than everyone else who bought it since then.

plenty of hetero people murdered since then, but it'd be pretty lame for all hetero folk to start a thread about that with only that connection, wouldn't it?

Homo uber alles?

You don't see the difference between a "hate crime" and a random murder ?

 

[Asphaultnaut]

You don't see the difference between a "hate crime" and a random murder ?

no. because they are both violently dead. the victim sees no difference. Anything else is trying to appease the survivors so they feel they "did something".

Legislating the emotion that someone thinks or believes is behind a crime cheapens the law. Whatever happened to everyone being equal? Is because there is always inequality, the solution is to increase the inequality? If a guy hunts you down because he's jealous of your income, that's less a problem than if he doesn't like where your ancestors came from or your choice in mates?

Most murders are NOT random. Giving preferential prosecution based on someone's interpretation of the motive is simply another form of discrimination-saying "that person is more worthy of protection than this other one".

So start a thread over a hetero killing that offends you. This thread started out over the sadness of a couple kids getting shot and one murdered. You seem to want it to be an opportunity to display your disdain for "preferential treatment." Perhaps if the killer was also a lesbian you will be ok with it.

No, I wouldn't start a thread because as I stated clearly that would be retarded. Where you get off saying I'd be "okay" with it depending on the killer's chosen identity? I clearly stated that it should be IRRELEVANT and treated the SAME as other cases, and if someone only points out this case because of the only commonality is a gender preference, then going around pretending that it was about "society" and "hate crime" is a sham. You'd be the first person to shout down a post if someone brought up a murder case solely because the murderer was gay, and you'd be correct to do so. The orientation of the victims does NOT make this some greater tragedy that needs to be handled differently or discussed differently-in fact, it should be expected-as the more and growing gay couple demographic increases, the much greater chance they'll be caught up in the same evil shit that non gay people encounter.