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Sonoma airsoft shooting: How To Indict An Officer in the Press

Hawaiirider said:
yep. # 1 rule of combat:

If the enemy is within range, so are YOU.

# 2:
Who the Fuck walks around with a semi-automatic weapon that ISN'T Looking for a fire-fight ?

Yeah, the officer in question might just be a fuck-up, but in this case I can't blame him for loosing a couple rounds and hitting the target.

"Drop the gun!" means DROP. THE. GUN.

If the armed person had shot the officer, and then killed a couple innocent civilians there would be people after his badge too.

There once was a time when I'd have said the officer should have taken cover and repeated his command because what are the odds of someone just wandering around with a REAL assault weapon and the intent to use it, but that time is Long Gone.
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Outstanding marksmanship, actually. :thumbup

I'm entirely with the officer on this one. I am sorry a young life was cut short and I blame this tragedy on the parents.

Further, I know there are bad cops, but I've never met one in the dozen or so contacts (some initiated by me, to introduce my daughter to uniforms). There is nothing to indicate this officer is not a credit to his profession.

Lex
 
Entoptic said:
...think that he was young once and probably ran around with fake guns.
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I did. Mum still has photos and swears she'll use to bribe me into something. Luckily the LEO training in the 60s was for people that had no business being a cop.

However, I stopped playing Cowboys and Indians at age 7, and never smoked marijuana, much less at age 13. There's something off with playing with fake guns and smoking pot at age 13. The late for the former, too early for the latter. Clearly someone not at 100%.
 
Entoptic said:
What ever happened to using your head? It's a shame the departments don't teach that anymore.
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:rolleyes Please feel free to back that up with some proof......

We're being trained almost monthly now on how to deal with the mentally ill.

Today's cops are some of the most highly trained, and screened, professionals out on the streets.

We're trained to give verbal commands to someone holding a weapon, and when those commands are not complied with and the officer is in fear for his life, they can shoot. Again, if it were me, and that kid started to turn and the muzzle had started to inch upwards, I would have shot too.
 
Rel said:
If I have to.... however, did both shoot? Was it 10 total? I don't know.
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Firstly, a big apology for lacking of facts. Most of my knowledge comes from threads like this. Lame, isn't it?

According to the bits and pieces here, one LEO shot 10 times, the first 5 in less than 2 seconds, and then the rest afterwards. Apparently 7 hits, and presumably 3 misses. :dunno.

First-person experience of this particular event notwithstanding, would you have shot and hit 2-3 times, re-assess and shoot some more if needed, or just empty the clip for good measure? (Steve, by no means putting you on the spot, just trying to understand the current mantra.)
 
Marcoose said:
Firstly, a big apology for lacking of facts. Most of my knowledge comes from threads like this. Lame, isn't it?

According to the bits and pieces here, one LEO shot 10 times, the first 5 in less than 2 seconds, and then the rest afterwards. Apparently 7 hits, and presumably 3 misses. :dunno.

First-person experience of this particular event notwithstanding, would you have shot and hit 2-3 times, re-assess and shoot some more if needed, or just empty the clip for good measure? (Steve, by no means putting you on the spot, just trying to understand the current mantra.)
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According to the DA report, it was 8 shots
 
Ah, wasn't sure who shot how many.....

It all depends on the officers perception of the threat. A lot of us are trained to shoot to put the threat down and then do a tactical reload.

Also, unlike the movies, people don't always fall down when shot. Sometimes when the do, they land on the weapon and if they're still moving towards it, we'll keep shooting.

The officer might have missed the first 3 shots due to the adrenal rush.
 
Marcoose said:
First-person experience of this particular event notwithstanding, would you have shot and hit 2-3 times, re-assess and shoot some more if needed, or just empty the clip for good measure? (Steve, by no means putting you on the spot, just trying to understand the current mantra.)
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Clips go in hair, magazines in guns. :teeth

It's hard to say how many I would have shot. I'd have to assess the threat. However, a kid with an AK47, which could be fully automatic, would cause me to put as many rounds downrange as I have to to put down the threat.
 
Im confused by "blame the parents."

Is it out of the question to hold the 13yo accountable for his actions. Having raised two sons I would suggest that a 13yo (even a "poorly raised 13yo) has a clear and competent understanding of right and wrong in this situation.

He is holding a weapon, cops roll up take defensive posture and demand the kid drop the weapon, twice. The only thing to do is comply. Drop the weapon and raise your hands. How fucking simple can it be? He made a fatal mistake.
 
Marcoose said:
Firstly, a big apology for lacking of facts. Most of my knowledge comes from threads like this. Lame, isn't it?

According to the bits and pieces here, one LEO shot 10 times, the first 5 in less than 2 seconds, and then the rest afterwards. Apparently 7 hits, and presumably 3 misses. :dunno.

First-person experience of this particular event notwithstanding, would you have shot and hit 2-3 times, re-assess and shoot some more if needed, or just empty the clip for good measure? (Steve, by no means putting you on the spot, just trying to understand the current mantra.)
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I am sure in your world he should have shot the gun out of the kid's hand without injuring him. The correct answer is that the cop had no idea how many times he hit the kid, nor was he counting his shots. He was stopping a potentially lethal threat and shot until the threat was no longer a threat. That's the correct way to deal with such a situation. Or I guess he could have shot twice and yelled: "Did I hit you yet?"
 
Wormwood said:
Im confused by "blame the parents."

Is it out of the question to hold the 13yo accountable for his actions. Having raised two sons I would suggest that a 13yo (even a "poorly raised 13yo) has a clear and competent understanding of right and wrong in this situation.

He is holding a weapon, cops roll up take defensive posture and demand the kid drop the weapon, twice. The only thing to do is comply. Drop the weapon and raise your hands. How fucking simple can it be? He made a fatal mistake.
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Only one of the cops took a defensive position and thete was no second warning
 
kevin 714 said:
Only one of the cops took a defensive position and thete was no second warning
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When a LEO draws his weapon he is taking a defensive position. It remains unclear if the second officer also gave a warning. That will come out in federal or civil cases pending.
 
Rel said:
:rolleyes Please feel free to back that up with some proof......

We're being trained almost monthly now on how to deal with the mentally ill.

Today's cops are some of the most highly trained, and screened, professionals out on the streets.

We're trained to give verbal commands to someone holding a weapon, and when those commands are not complied with and the officer is in fear for his life, they can shoot. Again, if it were me, and that kid started to turn and the muzzle had started to inch upwards, I would have shot too.
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You come across a deaf guy how well does that work?

You come across someone that doesn't understand english how well does that work?

At what point is an officer in fear of his life? Before the call, during the call, when the guy points a gun at him? I think this "fear for his life" stuff is a giant loophole for shoot first, ask questions later. I fear for my life when crossing the street in SF but I don't put bullets in every car. I fear for my life when an earthquake occurs but you don't see me shooting the ground. I bet most officers already fear for their life when they take a call about someone with a gun, should they shoot the suspect before even making contact?
 
Wormwood said:
When a LEO draws his weapon he is taking a defensive position. It remains unclear if the second officer also gave a warning. That will come out in federal or civil cases pending.
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I cant agree with you on this. carrying a weapon is neither offenseve nor defense, its only a ready position.

you can have a weapon in defensive or offensive mode
 
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