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100% Newbie, how do you get them riding a sportbike?

I wouldn't recommend anyone to ride without taking the MSF first, but that's just me. Quite a few skills you learn that can save your skin, even at low speeds
 
stangmx13 said:
+1... but add this b4 all of that

learn the basics on a pit or pocket-bike. some newbs dont even feel comfortable on bicycles. throw in clutch, shifting, and throttle control... and theyll be asked to leave the MSF course.

oh, and wats wrong w/ taking the starter bike to the track?
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Yeah, starter bikes like the SV or the Ninja 650, they can go just fine on the track. What gets me though is there are a lot of opinions on how to do something. I mean, isn't there a correct way, the most efficient way to steer a bike for example? I know the countersteering thread has been here and elsewhere, but seems like knowing the right stuff is key.
 
p14 said:
Yeah, starter bikes like the SV or the Ninja 650, they can go just fine on the track. What gets me though is there are a lot of opinions on how to do something. I mean, isn't there a correct way, the most efficient way to steer a bike for example? I know the countersteering thread has been here and elsewhere, but seems like knowing the right stuff is key.
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reading and therefore "knowing" how to do something on a motorcycle is only worth the time it took u to read it. maybe itll point u in the correct direction, but u wont really understand until u actually try it. steering a bike the correct way u ask?? every corner is different, every rider is different, every bike is different... so one can only give u a general suggestion on how to make it through that corner. uve still gotta learn the intricacies and all the muscle memory to go along w/ it. so maybe the most efficient way for you to make it through the corner is only good for u...

id say thats the best thing about trackday schools. they address all these issues and actually give u some instruction. they wont jus hand u a pamphlet, tell u to read it, and expect u to be Rossi on the first outing. as long as your instructor adapts his/her teaching style to better fit your needs, you are golden.
 
p14 said:
Yeah, starter bikes like the SV or the Ninja 650, they can go just fine on the track. What gets me though is there are a lot of opinions on how to do something. I mean, isn't there a correct way, the most efficient way to steer a bike for example? I know the countersteering thread has been here and elsewhere, but seems like knowing the right stuff is key.
Click to expand...
When it comes to how to physically operate the controls of the motorcycle, there is one correct way to do it. People will find all sorts of ways to explain how they do it or why something works for them, but ultimately, the successful riders are all doing the same thing whether they realize it or not. Unfortunately, however, many people still disagree with each other on how it's done, so be careful about taking advice from other riders. In his book, Twist of the Wrist: Volume 2, Keith Code says about taking advice from other riders,

Twist of the Wrist: Vol. 2 said:
Technology Versus Tips
I want to outline the different categories of information you might
receive about riding your bike. There are four; remember them. Each piece
of info that comes your way will fall into one of these categories.

Destructive Advice:
"You don't know how fast you can go until you crash."
"Wait till the other guy brakes and count to two."

Friendly Advice:
"Keep the rubber side down."
"Be smooth."
Useful Tips:
"Go wide around that bump."
"Try this section in the next taller gear."

Real technology:
"You always use a later turn-entry point for a decreasing-radius
turn*."
"Going off and on the throttle in turns affects suspension
compliance, reduces traction and makes the bike run wide."

Real Solutions
True technology has broad application and regularly resolves
riding problems. It contains a basic understanding of what the rider is
trying to do and forms a constructive bond between the rider and the
machine's dynamic* requirements. Counter-steering is a perfect example.
(See Chapter 12 for a description of counter-steering).

Practically everyone learns how to ride without any understanding
of counter-steering, but the moment it is fully comprehended and applied, it
opens the door to vast amounts of improvement in every possible situation
that requires steering the bike. Counter-steering perfectly matches what
the rider wants and needs with what the machine wants and needs. That's
what I call technology. Do you see the difference between that and useful
tips or friendly advice?

I'm not saying there isn't a place for tips and advice, because there
is -when they demonstrate an understanding of honest technology in
practical application. Then a tip or piece of advice becomes a useful tool.
But I've listened to many sincere words of advice on riding, most of which
were worthless.
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RhythmRider said:
When it comes to how to physically operate the controls of the motorcycle, there is one correct way to do it. People will find all sorts of ways to explain how they do it or why something works for them, but ultimately, the successful riders are all doing the same thing whether they realize it or not.
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I don't agree with this. At the extreme limit of the sport, Stoner vs. Rossi, this may be true (the correct way to operate the controls is the one that beats the competitor), but for the rest of us there is a spectrum of ways by which we control a motorcycle, and there is no one correct way because of differences in style. Watching any professional race shows this clearly.

My personal advice: Don't listen to any one source of information, whether it's from fellow riders or from someone's book - take input from as many sources as you can, and try to distill the results into something that works for you. Beware of anyone claiming to be the fountain of truth for how to ride a motorcycle.
 
JeffKoch said:
My personal advice: Don't listen to any one source of information, whether it's from fellow riders or from someone's book - take input from as many sources as you can, and try to distill the results into something that works for you. Beware of anyone claiming to be the fountain of truth for how to ride a motorcycle.
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Agreed, there are certain posters on this board who treat certain books as motorcycle bibles and preach from them like gospel. I would avoid listening to some of those posters

And no Aaron I'm not referring to you :thumbup
 
Jeff, I see what you're saying, and I agree with the content. Maybe I missed something in reading your post, but I think my words stand true, and answering these questions should prove that:

What is the best way to initiate lean on a motorcycle?
What is the fastest and most effective way to stop a motorcycle?

I said that there is one correct way to operate the controls of a motorcycle, and I think that statement was accurate. Some people may find different uses for the controls on a motorcycle, but ultimately, the answer to those two questions is always the same no matter who is riding.
 
Both of your questions would initiate long threads on motorcycle forums like BARF. :laughing The adjective "best" in the first question destroys any hope of a simple answer, and the generalization to "a motorcycle" in the second question does the same. You also didn't mention anything about road/weather conditions in either question, or whether the situation was routine or panic.

It's simplistic to think they have single answers, much less single correct answers.


RhythmRider said:
...answering these questions should prove that:

What is the best way to initiate lean on a motorcycle?
What is the fastest and most effective way to stop a motorcycle?
Click to expand...
 
JeffKoch said:
Both of your questions would initiate long threads on motorcycle forums like BARF. :laughing The adjective "best" in the first question destroys any hope of a simple answer, and the generalization to "a motorcycle" in the second question does the same. You also didn't mention anything about road/weather conditions in either question, or whether the situation was routine or panic.

It's simplistic to think they have single answers, much less single correct answers.
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There's a reason I like the word 'Ideal.' Generally, in an ideal corner, there is an ideal technique for an ideal rider to exit at an ideal speed at an ideal location.
 
Burning1 said:
There's a reason I like the word 'Ideal.' Generally, in an ideal corner, there is an ideal technique for an ideal rider to exit at an ideal speed at an ideal location.
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And then there is the race-track
 
That the ideal corner and ideal action are merely theoretical, and then there is the real world. And what you see work (and work well) at the track varies quite a bit.
 
JeffKoch said:
Both of your questions would initiate long threads on motorcycle forums like BARF. :laughing The adjective "best" in the first question destroys any hope of a simple answer, and the generalization to "a motorcycle" in the second question does the same. You also didn't mention anything about road/weather conditions in either question, or whether the situation was routine or panic.

It's simplistic to think they have single answers, much less single correct answers.
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Alright, looking back on it, I can see that the answers to my questions are not as simple as I was thinking at the time. In thinking about it more deeply, I have decided that there isn't a single correct way to operate the controls. It is dependent upon what the situation calls for. However, there lurks among all the discussion and situations that could occur, single, definitive rules that are generally followed every time, 100% of the time... right? For example:

Situation: Full stop
Control: Front Brake
Usage: Squeeze fully without locking the front wheel.

C'mon... keep arguing with me, I'm learning as we go along :)
 
RhythmRider said:
However, there lurks among all the discussion and situations that could occur, single, definitive rules that are generally followed every time, 100% of the time... right?
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To echo (I think) this point, do y'all think there are some common denominators in the use of controls?

"It depends" is an easy answer to give on the internet, but it doesn't do much for a rider who is trying to master a set of skills that will work all of the time. Is there such a set of skills?
 
I think you are right, but trying to find absolutes over the internets is fruitless.

I believe in trail-braking, counter-steering, hanging off, and leaving the rear-brake alone until my skill is much greater, if thats what you are asking
 
ucb said:
I believe in trail-braking, counter-steering, hanging off, and leaving the rear-brake alone until my skill is much greater, if thats what you are asking
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Not really what I was asking, but I'll try to clarify my point. When you trail brake, you are still applying the brake in a specific way that approximates the ideal result for the motorcycle. It doesn't matter if you're trail braking or coming to a complete stop; you aren't going to grab the front brake lever and lock the front wheel. The mechanical design and the physics that govern the motorcycle are definite, and so I believe there is a definite way to operate the controls to achieve the ideal result.

Andy pretty much said what I was trying to get across... there are common denominators in the use of the controls, and they apply to everyone who uses them (in reference to people who ride motorcycles in the standard sense of the term, not just any two wheeled single-track vehicle).
 
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Yeah im not trying to argue with either of you :thumbup
 
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