125 or 250 2-smoke?

[timpearson26]

I currently own a 97' yz 250. I bought it about 1 year ago as my first dirt bike w/o doing research and not knowing that it was such a powerful bike. (i ride a 600rr on the track and figured a 250, even a 2-stroke was a medium sized bike) Now about a year later I am finally starting to become comfortable with the bike, but I would still consider myself a beginner. I ride about once a week. I am thinking about getting a 125 2-stroke. I am thinking because it is smaller, I will improve faster on it than on my bike. Does this sound like a good idea or should I just stick with my bike?

Tim

 

[n10sive]

If you are comfortable now on the 250 why change? The 125 is going to feel small. I know a lot of kids who race 450f's an 250f's that LOVE going out and banging around on 50's. It does translate back to when they get back on their bigger bikes in improved confidence. But if your not going to ride a 125 and get back on the 250 why bother? Got any friends with a 125? Go ride one a few times and then get back on the 250. Otherwise...I would recommend keeping your 250 and just keep putting time on it.

 

[timpearson26]

I also have a crf 150f (wife's bike) that I ride every once in a while. It does seem to give me a confidence boost when I get back to the 250. Maybe I'll just try that.

Just wondering how much more agile a 125 was vs. a 250. I'll probably just stick with the 250 b/c it's less hassle.

 

[WoodsChick]

I also have a crf 150f (wife's bike) that I ride every once in a while. It does seem to give me a confidence boost when I get back to the 250. Maybe I'll just try that.

Just wondering how much more agile a 125 was vs. a 250. I'll probably just stick with the 250 b/c it's less hassle.

What is it about the 250 that is uncomfortable? Is it the physical size/weight of the bike or is it the power delivery (i.e. too much?) I rode 125's exclusively for about 13 years and I can tell you that they are not easy to get along with for a beginner rider. You must be confident and not afraid to whack the throttle wide open in order to survive on a 125...at least when riding them on trails. They are more user-friendly on a track, but it still takes a lot of work to get them to work efficiently. A 250 2-stroke that is tuned for woods riding (flywheel weight, different pipe and gearing, softer suspension, etc.) would probably be easier to deal with than a high-strung 125 with its impossibly-narrow powerband. On the other hand, nothing will teach you to ride better than a 125. It's pretty much do or die on the 125, and you cannot make mistakes all day long and get away with it. If nothing else, the 125 will teach you supreme clutching skills and power management. Folks that know how to ride always have a blast when they ride my 125, but each and every one of them says it will kick their butt if they ride it too long because it takes a lot of energy and effort to ride it correctly. I love my 125 and keep it around as sort of a training tool. Riding my 450 4-stroke tends to make me lazy, only because I can get away with it, so hopping on the 125 now and then keeps me honest and helps me maintain my aggressiveness...not to mention cornering speed


WoodsChick

 

[My900ss]

I am of the opinion the 250 will be easier to ride than the 125. Yes the 250 makes more on peak power, it is however the off peak power range that the 250 is much much easier bike to ride. I have a CR500, the first time I rode my 10 year old neighbors RM85 I flipped the damn thing and landed on my ass. 22hp developed of an 10rpm power band caught me by surprise so smaller is not always better.

 

[timpearson26]

Thanks for the replies. About the 250 being difficult, I think it is a combination of things, (power, weight, maybe size?). At first it was shockingly fast, but now I am getting more of a handle on it. I guess more seat time will improve that. Also I was thinking that a 125 would be a lot lighter, but I am not sure on this, the ones I saw yesterday at metcalf looked to be the same size as my bike.

I think I'll stick with the 250 for now though. Even though I haven't ridden a 125 2 stroke, from what people have been saying, it seems like the 250 will be more forgiving power wise, because of the larger power band (ie. going up a hill to slow, and not having to downshift.)

 

[zookrider98]

i had a 2000 yz 250 as a " getting back into dirt" bike after 20 years. The 250 was great , tons of power and i did learn quite alot on it. After i sold it, a buddy let me use his 125. I was so much more confident on the 125 then the 250. I was going faster and actually jumping ( small jumps ) that i would never do on the 250 because of how much smaller and more flickable the 125 felt. It was the most fun i have had on a dirtbike in a long while. As much of a 2-stroke fan i am, I will be getting a 250F sometime soon.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I am of the opinion the 250 will be easier to ride than the 125. Yes the 250 makes more on peak power, it is however the off peak power range that the 250 is much much easier bike to ride. I have a CR500, the first time I rode my 10 year old neighbors RM85 I flipped the damn thing and landed on my ass. 22hp developed of an 10rpm power band caught me by surprise so smaller is not always better.

+1
A 125 can be plenty of fun, but I really think it's harder to ride than a 250. While I would never recommend a 500 for a beginner because of the sheer power, it's actually a relatively easy bike to ride because you can do almost anything in second or third gear. The 125 will require a lot of shifting to keep it in its powerband.

If you really want something easier to ride with less power, go for a 4-stroke like a CRF230, though it's still going to weigh more than your 250.

 

[WoodsChick]

Thanks for the replies. About the 250 being difficult, I think it is a combination of things, (power, weight, maybe size?). At first it was shockingly fast, but now I am getting more of a handle on it. I guess more seat time will improve that. Also I was thinking that a 125 would be a lot lighter, but I am not sure on this, the ones I saw yesterday at metcalf looked to be the same size as my bike.

I think I'll stick with the 250 for now though. Even though I haven't ridden a 125 2 stroke, from what people have been saying, it seems like the 250 will be more forgiving power wise, because of the larger power band (ie. going up a hill to slow, and not having to downshift.)

Well, if you've been riding the 250 for a year now and you haven't killed yourself yet, you're doing OK

The 125's and 250's are pretty much the same physical size. The 125 will feel smaller, probably, but they're not that much lighter. At least, not enough to make it worth the trade-off in power delivery.

I would suggest looking into a flywheel weight (Stealhy makes some good ones, maybe a 10oz to start with) to smooth your power delivery out a little bit. Have you done anything to the suspension to make it work better for you? Suspension is super-important for making a bike comfortable to ride, and properly set-up suspension will do wonders for your confidence. If you're confident you're not going to end up on your head every time you run into some nasty terrain or a jump, you'll feel alot better about carrying more speed through said terrain, and thus will become a better rider.

What type of riding are you doing, anyway? Are you a trail rider or are you doing MX? Do you ride with more experienced riders that can help you learn?


WoodsChick

 

[doosty]

i could be wrong but them 125s almost seem taller than the 250s. try giving sand an opportunity. its forgiving and you'll get a chance to see what that bike can really do. in no time you will want more power. just watch out for razorbacks because i have seen experienced riders plummet 100yards straight down the back of dunes. and what woodschick said about suspension is right on. i usually get my suspension done every year to keep my bike dope. 2 strokes are fun as hell but can be a pain in the ass to ride especially if you're not comfortable with getting on the gas and getting squirly. a 4 stroke will be in my garage on the next go around. they are just the way to go. much less rider effort and fatigue.

 

[timpearson26]

As for the suspension it has not been set up for me, so I know it is wrong. That is the next thing on my list to do. I talked to this guy at Metcalf who has a trailer that advertises suspension tuning. I think i'm gonna go with him.

As far as riding, I don't do, or plan to do, any MX. I just do trails.

I'll look into that flywheel weight thing. Thanks for the tip woodschick.

Tim

 

[ericm]

Besides the flywheel weight, which will slow the engine's reponse down a bit, you can also modify the powerband by changing the timing. Advancing the timing will make more of a 'hit' down low; retarding the timing will soften the low end of the powerband and slightly extend the overrev. If the bike's a little much for you then I'd recommend the flywheel weight and retarding the timing.

It's pretty easy to change the timing- remove the flywheel, mark the position of the stator, then loosen and rotate it the correct direction. The good thing about these mods is that they are easily undone.

 

[timpearson26]

i could be wrong but them 125s almost seem taller than the 250s.

You're right, at least for the older bikes. The 125 is .1 inches taller. I just looked up the info on the yz's. I couldn't find the 97' info but I found it for 98' which I think is the same.

1998 YZ 125:

Weight: 196 pounds
Wheelbase: 56.9 inches
Seat Height: 39.1 inches
Ground Clearance 15.7 in

1998 YZ 250:

Weight: 218 pounds
Wheelbase: 58.3 inches
Seat Height: 39 inches
Ground Clearance 15.7 in

How much of a difference does 22 lbs actually make?

Tim

 

[WoodsChick]

As for the suspension it has not been set up for me, so I know it is wrong. That is the next thing on my list to do. I talked to this guy at Metcalf who has a trailer that advertises suspension tuning. I think i'm gonna go with him.

As far as riding, I don't do, or plan to do, any MX. I just do trails.

I'll look into that flywheel weight thing. Thanks for the tip woodschick.

Tim

Phil from Aftershocks goes to Metcalf sometimes...was that the guy you saw?
He does good work, he did the suspension on my `87 CR125 when it was new, and he's helped me in the past with some issues on my stock GasGas shock. Just don't take it to him before a big AFM race weekend or you might have to wait awhile to get your stuff back I dunno, maybe it's just me, but suspension is always the very first thing on my "to do" list for any motorcycle. No matter what kind of shiny new pipe you put on it, or other kind of money you might throw at a motorcycle to make it fast and trick, you can only go as fast as your suspension will allow. Start there and I'll bet you're feeling much better about your purchase in no time.

In your comparison of the 125 and 250 YZ's, the number that really stands out to me is the difference in the length of the wheelbase. That, alone, is going to make a difference in nimbleness. Seat height difference is a non-issue. I can almost guarantee you your `97 YZ250 no longer has a seat height of 39", especially if you've never done anything to the suspension. As far as weight goes, 218lbs is pretty darned light. My WR250f weighed quite a bit more than that (as does my 450) and it was a piece of cake to ride. I'm guessing the size and weight won't be an issue for you once you get it set up to your liking. You simply cannot beat a 2-stroke when it comes to power-to-weight ratio. How tall are you?

As far as retarding the timing on the YZ, well, I wouldn't mess with it unless you're also messing with your compression, but it does change the power delivery. I've got a switch on my bars on my WR250F that can change the ignition timing from YZF to WR (less abrupt) when conditions get nasty. I don't think you'll need it once you take care of your suspension and get an easy-to-bolt-on flywheel weight, though.

Good luck with your bike and let us know how it goes.


WoodsChick

 

[duh_ave]

Woodschick has some great advice!
As she stated, a flywheel weight and also maybe a mid-range pipe will help put the power into a comfy range and make it very trail friendly.
I wouldn't mess with the ignition timing either. You can end up with all sort of other issues that can be detrimental to the lifespan of your engine.
Suspension is always #1! Getting you comfy on the bike is far more important than tuning the engine.
Another great shop is BR1; www.br1suspension.com

 

[timpearson26]

It wasn't phil at metcalf. Phil has done my suspension on my track bike and did a very good job, but this guy just advertised on his trailer and it was convenient so I figured I would just use him b/c I see him there almost every time I go.

I am 5'11'' 155lbs btw.

Yeah, when I get the suspension done I'll let you know how the bike feels. Then maybe i'll look into the flywheel weight. I'm not gonna mess with the timing b/c I'll probably just mess it up.

 

[HellFyre]

I highly recommend the flywheel weight. I, too, recently got a yz250 and was a little overwhelmed by the on/off power. Don't get me wrong, I love the power, but I didn't like how it had no concept of rolling on.

I got the Steahly 13 oz. flywheel weight (heaviest they had) and that made a HUUUUGE difference. They're $80-90 or so and literally take 30m to install. (Remember, the bike has no oil!)