A Revzilla article calls out the culture of homophobia and transphobia in the MC industry.

[TheRobSJ]

While I don’t have the perspective of being gay, I am still a set of eyes in an industry that’s pretty much identical to motorcycles/powersports. In all my years, in all the shops, I think I’ve only worked with one gay man. Think. Don’t know for sure since I don’t believe he was out and it wasn’t my business nor did I care. But my very first day at that shop, one of the other guys who worked right next to me pointed out “That’s Michael. He’s a fag.” Kind of shocked me a bit that someone who’d met me literary two minutes ago was so comfortable throwing out a homophobic slur so fast. He would always refer to Michael as “Michelle” or use a female pronoun when talking about him “She is working on that one, she’s out sick today, that’s her mess she can clean it up, etc.” Loud enough that I’m certain everyone could hear it…including customers. The guy was an absolute HR nightmare. I would think an even bigger nightmare for Michael, but he never filed a complaint. Eventually the homophobe would seemingly allow himself to be bumped by a car Michael was moving in the shop, and used that as provocation to just start throwing punches at him. Yeesh. And still…kept his job. Just amazing. Management there was on cruise control mainly because the owner of the place checked in a couple times a year and couldn’t care less what happened just so long as the place was profitable. Years later those two eventually left, ownership changed, more dialed in managers would be in place, and I would become the foreman of that shop. The blatant homophobic crap I saw and heard there when I first started would not be tolerated anymore.

I’ve worked in small dirty independent shops and large buttoned down corporate owned dealer group shops. Seems like the vibe gets far more PC at the end of the spectrum there as big corporations like Penske, Autonation, etc have a lot more to lose should they ever have someone lawyer up and come after them for harassment/hostile work environment/etc. The really small shops…yeah the nudie calendars are still hanging up in the shop and bigotry and homophobic speech as thrown around casually like it’s nothing. That is where we aren't so similar to motorcycle business. There really isn’t any multibillion dollar companies with strict HR policies and enforcement owning any bike shops. Yes Harley dealers are big, but they’re all franchised, and I don’t think any one of them is owned by a huge group like Autonation or whatever.

I know “toxic masculinity” seems to be popular buzzwords these days. The industry I’ve been working in for over a quarter of a century is certainly helping keep it alive. Automotive, at least the repair side of it, is like 99% male dominated. And of that giant sausage party, I’d say 95% are hetero. Put that many straight guys together and you’ll eventually get “boys will be boys” and it’ll devolve to typical schoolyard bullying should an outsider come around. I couldn’t imagine being gay/trans and coming into an environment like that. I would absolutely stay in, try to butch up as much as I could, and pray I never get outed. Sad state of affairs.

 

[TylerW]

But my very first day at that shop, one of the other guys who worked right next to me pointed out “That’s Michael. He’s a fag.” Kind of shocked me a bit that someone who’d met me literary two minutes ago was so comfortable throwing out a homophobic slur so fast. He would always refer to Michael as “Michelle” or use a female pronoun when talking about him “She is working on that one, she’s out sick today, that’s her mess she can clean it up, etc.” Loud enough that I’m certain everyone could hear it…including customers.

Its interesting to observe that some folks are as quick to misgender a gay man as readily, I'm assuming, as they would a trans woman.

 

[Eldritch]

Its interesting to observe that some folks are as quick to misgender a gay man as readily, I'm assuming, as they would a trans woman.

I mean, c'mon, a dude using language as described is clearly the exact same dude, right? The semantic specifics are just symptoms of a particular thought model.

 

[AdamFiveFive]

the motorcycle industry has deep-seated, institutionalized, systemic, homophobia and transphobia that are barely concealed just under the surface

I got news for that guy. It's not just the motorcycle industry. It's everywhere.

The whole world is not politically correct. As a minority, I can tell you that racism still exists. And it's everywhere. Not just some MC that excludes people of certain skin colors.

The the sad news is: the world is not changing anytime soon. It's the people of the world. Not everybody. But enough people in this world, discriminate against other people who are different. Travel the world, or just travel The City. Sexism. Racism. Anti-every-color-on-the-rainbow-flag.

And yes. There is prejudice. In this day and age, people still prejudge you based upon your appearance. And they fall back on stereotypes before they know anything about you.

Is it right? Is it wrong? Or is the world just like that?

 

[AdamFiveFive]

I have to wonder how much this lingering attitude has had an effect on the industry's bottom line.

I would guess that impacts the motorcycle industry about as much as it impacts any other industry. As a consumer, I spend money where I want. If I don't feel good about that business, I don't go there. Just as gay people are probably boycotting with their dollars everywhere else. If a restaurant gives you bad service, you don't go back. If a motorcycle dealer or shop treats you bad, you go to another one. I once walked into a local dealership, and was greeted by "sorry, we don't sell Jap bikes here". I don't shop there anymore. They are not getting any money out of me. I would drive an hour to another dealership, or order a part from across the country and pay shipping.

 

[AdamFiveFive]

I was always a bit trepidatious when it came to meeting people / joining rides / rallies when I started riding, that was a mix of me not being a good rider and my expectations of the culture. It's not quite as bad as I expected but I pass or whatever you wanna call it, I just keep the conversations on motorcycles, the weather, etc, keeps it simple.

From my personal experiences, and the experiences are just mine, people who ride motorcycles are like everyone else. Just people. You get the good, with the bad. There are people who are not as progressive. There are people who are more culturally conservative. There are people who want to surround themselves with people who are similar to them - and they form clubs. Just like the cliques in high school.

A lot of it depends on your perspective. Do you really want to be in some group, which does not want you in their group? I have no desire for acceptance from people who don't want me around. And maybe it's okay. It's what everyone wants anyway. As I see motorcycle clubs which have core memberships of people who are exactly alike - it doesn't bother me. But maybe it's just me. I don't care.

I don't care to be in other clubs too. In real life, I'm not a member of The Pacific Union Club, The Junior League, Chinese For Affirmative Action, The ACLU, The Elks Lodge, or any one of a whole bunch of clubs who have secret handshakes. So I'm not all too upset over an MC for recovering addicts telling me that their club is for those in recovery. Nor am I upset that Dykes on Bikes wants dykes, and I am not a dyke. I ride my bike, like I drive my car. It's transportation. It's not a lifestyle. I don't belong to any car clubs either. Nor do I care if a certain car club has a core membership of a certain demographic.

 

[vaara]

Where the hell is Smallfry when we need him?

Iowa, last I heard. But it's been a few years. He was the first BARFer I met IRL, and we went on some great rides together. I miss him.

Re: gays and motorcycling, I've been an out gay for 35 years and a motorcyclist for 30. I was introduced to riding by a boyfriend. I can't say I've experienced anything resembling bigotry in my interactions with riders, shops, etc., except for when I was a CMSP instructor and felt I had to remain closeted due to the constant stream of little and not-so-little digs aimed at LGBTQ people by one guy in particular. This was in 2014-16, not way back in the Dark Ages. I ended up quitting.

Finally, if anyone's interested, there's a fun book by a gay executive at "a legendary Italian motorcycle company" (it's not named in the book, but it's pretty obvious which one). "Fast Company" by David M. Gross.

 

[OldMadBrit]

Great article and sad/tough experiences.
Not at all limited to the Moto industry. I have seen it in every industry I have worked in.
Some level of bigotry, racism, LGTBQ-phobia and every form of "anti-otherism" exists everywhere.
I seriously believe its hardwired into our simian DNA. We are descended from millions of years of a genetically driven need to form band/gang/tribe units and to fight for dominance over all others. Knee-jerk identification and differentiation between friend or foe, is hard wired. It takes a conscious effort at multiple levels to overcome.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most people don't care much what happens in other people's bedrooms, but some are actually freaked out when first faced with gender norms outside of their own comfort zone or belief system.

 

[Climber]

I've never viewed the motorcycle industry as a homogenous group, there is the Harley group, the sportbike group, the BMW group then the supermoto group among the major groups (not counting dirt).

I imagine that through each group the personalities are different.

This article seems to be a one size fits all application.

 

[Vintagerider21]

To the guy who uses the expression "sexual preference", you do not get to choose your sexuality. I am a gay man who has been riding a long time and there are many like me. I understand what the man in the article writes that he has to be closeted in the hyper-masculine environment of the motorcycle business. We must strive to be accepting of people of all sexual persuasions and races. It is our future.

 

[littlebeast]

I've never viewed the motorcycle industry as a homogenous group, there is the Harley group, the sportbike group, the BMW group then the supermoto group among the major groups (not counting dirt).

I imagine that through each group the personalities are different.

This article seems to be a one size fits all application.

interesting that you acknowledge that the motorcycle industry is not a homogeneous group, but you seem to think subsets of it are. the concept of homogeny is an illusion. the concept of one size fits all is an illusion.

the thing is - the LBGTQ community have interests, pursuits and aspirations as varied as any other segment of the population. they are us - as much US as literally anyone else. one big glorious community. difference being - they have to deal at times with bullshit for simply being who they are.

thanks again to tyler for this thread. and thanks also to those who have posted their personal stories. my apologies for belaboring the point, but am fairly militant in my belief of how important this subject is to our future as moto enthusiasts and even more importantly - as a society.

 

[Climber]

interesting that you acknowledge that the motorcycle industry is not a homogeneous group, but you seem to think subsets of it are. the concept of homogeny is an illusion. the concept of one size fits all is an illusion.

the thing is - the LBGTQ community have interests, pursuits and aspirations as varied as any other segment of the population. they are us - as much US as literally anyone else. one big glorious community. difference being - they have to deal at times with bullshit for simply being who they are.

thanks again to tyler for this thread. and thanks also to those who have posted their personal stories. my apologies for belaboring the point, but am fairly militant in my belief of how important this subject is to our future as moto enthusiasts and even more importantly - as a society.

LB, no two people are the same, but there are logical divisions that can be made with some groups.

I will stand by my statement that Harley riders are a different group (for the most part) than sportbike riders, among other groups. While not homogenous, they are distinctly different from each other, reflected in how few wave to each other across these groups. I strongly suspect that the acceptance of LBGTQ folks experience greater issues with the harley crowd than with the sportbike crowd even if there are harley riding LBGTQ groups and riders out there, IIRC SmallFry rode a Harley.

 

[ctwo]

Seems that if the size is old white guys, then that is perfectly PC...

 

[TylerW]

the thing is - the LBGTQ community have interests, pursuits and aspirations as varied as any other segment of the population. they are us - as much US as literally anyone else. one big glorious community. difference being - they have to deal at times with bullshit for simply being who they are.

Unfortunately this isn't true either. There isn't always, but there can be some really bitter divisions in LGBTQ+ communities. I've known a number of lesbian and gay folks who are transphobic, and bi/pan folks (especially the ones in hetero relationships) are constantly turned out because they're "not gay enough"

I know San Francisco is one of the most famous queer communities, but in my experience, it can also be one of the most toxic.

 

[AdamFiveFive]

Unfortunately this isn't true either. There isn't always, but there can be some really bitter divisions in LGBTQ+ communities. I've known a number of lesbian and gay folks who are transphobic, and bi/pan folks (especially the ones in hetero relationships) are constantly turned out because they're "not gay enough"

I know San Francisco is one of the most famous queer communities, but in my experience, it can also be one of the most toxic.

reminds me of a scene from a show I watched


[YOUTUBE]Mu4naXsKsys[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Blankpage]

Unfortunately this isn't true either. There isn't always, but there can be some really bitter divisions in LGBTQ+ communities. I've known a number of lesbian and gay folks who are transphobic, and bi/pan folks (especially the ones in hetero relationships) are constantly turned out because they're "not gay enough"

I know San Francisco is one of the most famous queer communities, but in my experience, it can also be one of the most toxic.

Haven’t given it much thought but interesting point, likely also exists racist gheys. White gays that don’t like black gays, blacks that don’t like white, Asian, native…
Gheys divided along political lines, religion, sports teams, Ford vs Chevy…
Folks just like what they see in the mirror.

 

[littlebeast]

Unfortunately this isn't true either. There isn't always, but there can be some really bitter divisions in LGBTQ+ communities. I've known a number of lesbian and gay folks who are transphobic, and bi/pan folks (especially the ones in hetero relationships) are constantly turned out because they're "not gay enough"

I know San Francisco is one of the most famous queer communities, but in my experience, it can also be one of the most toxic.

apologies i wasn’t more clear. when i referred to ‘one big glorious community’, it was in reference to ‘us’. we (collectively) are full of diversity - and personally, i LOVE diversity. IMO it’s beautiful and stimulating. a ‘fabric of life’ sorta thing.

each time i’ve posted, have been thinking of the subject of the thread, but also the (too) many other segments of the population with similar challenges. and yeah - there are differences and divisions in all communities - alluded to that point with my response to climber. and to your very valid point - absolutely there are people who experience prejudice, while they themselves inflict it on others. we’re a strange species.

but like i said previously - this is a vital conversation to have. we’re all just trying to make our way in this world, and hopefully at some point we’ll succumb to exhaustion from all the effort it takes to antagonize each other, and decide it’s actually easier (and MUCH more pleasant) to embrace each other. just say ‘fuck it’, stop being so fucking judgmental, and give in to being nice to people. FFS.

 

[ctwo]

What do you mean, "we"?

 

[TylerW]

Haven’t given it much thought but interesting point, likely also exists racist gheys. White gays that don’t like black gays, blacks that don’t like white, Asian, native…
Gheys divided along political lines, religion, sports teams, Ford vs Chevy…
Folks just like what they see in the mirror.

What's the difference between ghey and gay?

 

[Climber]

What's the difference between ghey and gay?

Probably the same as Cheese and Rice vs Jesus Christ?