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Acid lead / Lithium Battery Charger/Maintainer

newbiker

newbiker

New member
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Location
Hayward
Moto(s)
2016 Ninja Zx6r
Hi guys,

No, this isn't another battery thread...Lol. :laughing This is about chosing the "RIGHT" charger/maintainer. I live in SF Bayarea CA, so no extreme weathers. Everyone has their favorite brands, but I'm trying to educate myself - what "specs" to look for when buying a trickle charger/ maintainer. I prefer keeping it hooked up all the time (24/7). I ride only in summer, that too not frequently.

Having said that, I am strongly considering getting Lithium battery. I'm not too sure about the Standard specs/power/amps, etc to look for in a charger/maintainer that would keep the battery in Top condition.

Please share your feedback on what to buy... Thanks! :ride
 
If you are getting a Lithium battery then make sure you get a charger that can charge lithium batteries.

If you have a lead acid battery it doesn't really matter any trickle charger will do. Pretty much any automotive battery maintainer will work. Lithium batteries have very low self discharge rate btw.

If your battery is hard to access I suggest you get one that has a harness you can attach to your battery that way all you have to do is plug it in without taking your bike apart.

They are usually around .5A to 1.5A charge rate for a simple one.
 
The majority of reviews across forums/social media pointed me towards the Noco Genius products. I got the Genius5 and have used it on my truck battery, 2 moto lead-acid batteries, and 2 lithum batteries. No issues so far - repair mode eeked out an extra 4 months on my truck battery. It has autodetected 12v lead from 12 lithium. If the battery was dead-dead, my old Battery Tender wouldn't register anything and therefore wouldn't start to charge/repair it on its own. The Noco has a "force charge" option that will bypass the normal voltage detection that tells it to get started, which is super handy.
 
Not the cheapest option but this one does it all the Optimate tender can handle any battery you can throw at it.
 
Ok, so far nobody has been able to give me a clear answer on this.
We always talk about how " you need a special charger or you'll destroy a Lithium battery ". Ok fine. Then why doesn't the bikes charging system, which is designed for lead acid batteries, do the same thing ? I'm really curious. I've had a Shorai in my ZX14 for around 3 years and have a Shorai charger which I never use because, on my bike the battery is buried in the frame.

Mad
 
I've used both lithium-specific chargers and nonlithium-specific chargers on both types of batteries without issue.

I think the lithium has a slightly lower (?) resting voltage vs lead-acid. Anyway, doesn't seem to make any difference in my experience.
 
The "maintainer" chargers have a higher de-sulphate voltage that will damage a LiPo battery.
 
Maddevill said:
Ok, so far nobody has been able to give me a clear answer on this.
We always talk about how " you need a special charger or you'll destroy a Lithium battery ". Ok fine. Then why doesn't the bikes charging system, which is designed for lead acid batteries, do the same thing ? I'm really curious. I've had a Shorai in my ZX14 for around 3 years and have a Shorai charger which I never use because, on my bike the battery is buried in the frame.

Mad
Click to expand...
Good info here
https://glider-battery.eu/post4-1/#...cid charger that,the battery is fully charged.

and here
https://www.fullspectrumpower.com/b...i-use-a-lithium-motorcycle-battery-in-my-bike

The biggest difference is that a "dumb" charger may provide too much voltage to the lithium battery. Lead batteries aren't super picky about input voltage as long as it's higher than 14v. Lithium requires a much more narrow voltage range, with a maximum (IIRC) of about 14.6v. The low resistance in a lithium battery means that it charges quickly but may be prone to over-charging since its internal resistance doesn't increase like a lead acid. In other words, as it fills up, a lead battery will resist additional current at a given voltage, a lithium will not... potentially overloading the battery. The motorcycle's charging system should be bound to the operating voltages that lithium can accept (13.5-14.6v) and they don't over charge because it's not ridden long enough to, before the rider slows and starts depleting some of the charge while at slow speeds/stopped.

TLDR: Lead acid is the kid that can eat anything and still play his sport just fine. Lithium is the strict-diet, carb counting all-star that would die after a couple beers, a cheeseburger, and fries.

EDIT: And to add to what dravnx said, the desulfate/repair mode is the biggest danger to a lithium. That mode pulses/spikes the voltage to break the sulfate crystal bonds from the plates. That voltage spike is a big "no" for lithium batteries. You can charge a lithium battery with a lead acid battery IF you can turn off/disable repair mode AND you take it off the charger once it reaches your desired charge level
 
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Yet another reason why I feel that a Yuasa AGM is the best choice for a motorcycle battery. Any old 1.5 amp battery charger will work just fine. :cool
 
cg_ops said:
Good info here
https://glider-battery.eu/post4-1/#...cid charger that,the battery is fully charged.

and here
https://www.fullspectrumpower.com/b...i-use-a-lithium-motorcycle-battery-in-my-bike

The biggest difference is that a "dumb" charger may provide too much voltage to the lithium battery. Lead batteries aren't super picky about input voltage as long as it's higher than 14v. Lithium requires a much more narrow voltage range, with a maximum (IIRC) of about 14.6v. The low resistance in a lithium battery means that it charges quickly but may be prone to over-charging since its internal resistance doesn't increase like a lead acid. In other words, as it fills up, a lead battery will resist additional current at a given voltage, a lithium will not... potentially overloading the battery. The motorcycle's charging system should be bound to the operating voltages that lithium can accept (13.5-14.6v) and they don't over charge because it's not ridden long enough to, before the rider slows and starts depleting some of the charge while at slow speeds/stopped.

TLDR: Lead acid is the kid that can eat anything and still play his sport just fine. Lithium is the strict-diet, carb counting all-star that would die after a couple beers, a cheeseburger, and fries.
Click to expand...


it appears that at least one manufacturer, noco in this case, is taking that into account and utilizing the space saved with by lithium cells to add protective circuitry. the "over discharge" feature is appealing to me. i killed a rather expensive lithium battery on a bike that had some electrical gremlins. or mabe i left the ignition/headlight on.... same difference it discharged the battery to the point of ruining the battery

NLP_Lithium_Powersport_Batteries_Dynamic_BMS.jpg
 
Yea, I'm a big noco fan. Highly regarded in most reviews I've seen. There are higher quality options out there but they seem to be far pricier as well.

One should take battery/charger reviews with a grain of salt. Many issues that I see are not necessarily the fault of the devices. Improperly hooked up leads, selecting the wrong battery type, physically damaged gear, power source regulation issue, etc can all cause issues that aren't necessarily the fault of the device (battery or charger). For example, on the Noco Genius5 I linked to above, a review complained about the claim that it could be left to charge 24/7 but then the manual states that it's not to be left unattended. It's not a "problem" per se, it's just common sense that you should never leave charging batteries of ANY kind unattended. No one obeys that, but it's to cover their ass in the event a defective battery/charger catches fire. Having someone there to handle it is the difference between losing a battery/charger or a battery/charger/home.
 
I have a couple of spare (non-lithium) trickle chargers. PM me if you want one for free - you'll have to pick up in SF...
 
cg_ops said:
The majority of reviews across forums/social media pointed me towards the Noco Genius products. I got the Genius5 and have used it on my truck battery, 2 moto lead-acid batteries, and 2 lithum batteries. No issues so far - repair mode eeked out an extra 4 months on my truck battery. It has autodetected 12v lead from 12 lithium. If the battery was dead-dead, my old Battery Tender wouldn't register anything and therefore wouldn't start to charge/repair it on its own. The Noco has a "force charge" option that will bypass the normal voltage detection that tells it to get started, which is super handy.
Click to expand...

Sounds Great! It seems all Noco Genius charges are great. Any idea as to why I should consider one with 5 AMPS, and not 2 AMPS, or 1 AMP? For a bike battery - a long term maintainer/charger doesn't need to be too powerful, in my opinion. But you all can shed light on the spes - such as Amps, or other technical details.
 
cg_ops said:
The majority of reviews across forums/social media pointed me towards the Noco Genius products. I got the Genius5 and have used it on my truck battery, 2 moto lead-acid batteries, and 2 lithum batteries. No issues so far - repair mode eeked out an extra 4 months on my truck battery. It has autodetected 12v lead from 12 lithium. If the battery was dead-dead, my old Battery Tender wouldn't register anything and therefore wouldn't start to charge/repair it on its own. The Noco has a "force charge" option that will bypass the normal voltage detection that tells it to get started, which is super handy.
Click to expand...

N4teTheGreat said:
Not the cheapest option but this one does it all the Optimate tender can handle any battery you can throw at it.
Click to expand...

Looks good. Doesn't show it works on Lithium...
 
I've used many brands of chargers/maintainers, and spent too much time reading up on them(I really like to deep dive on anything I buy). Optimate and CTEK are the top dogs. They both have great protections and charge logic, and can be left hooked up indefinitely without overcharging. I've been using a CTEK MXS 5.0 on all my cars and motos for a few years now, and it stays plugged into my Corvette for long periods of time(poor C4 needs lots of TLC). They make versions for lithium batteries of course.

EDIT : I'll be getting the CTEK Lithium XS for two of my motos that have lithium batteries. I'm in no rush though, as they seem to be holding their charge better than my lead acid batts.
 
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cg_ops said:
Yea, I'm a big noco fan. Highly regarded in most reviews I've seen. There are higher quality options out there but they seem to be far pricier as well.

One should take battery/charger reviews with a grain of salt. Many issues that I see are not necessarily the fault of the devices. Improperly hooked up leads, selecting the wrong battery type, physically damaged gear, power source regulation issue, etc can all cause issues that aren't necessarily the fault of the device (battery or charger). For example, on the Noco Genius5 I linked to above, a review complained about the claim that it could be left to charge 24/7 but then the manual states that it's not to be left unattended. It's not a "problem" per se, it's just common sense that you should never leave charging batteries of ANY kind unattended. No one obeys that, but it's to cover their ass in the event a defective battery/charger catches fire. Having someone there to handle it is the difference between losing a battery/charger or a battery/charger/home.
Click to expand...

I am confused - can we OR can we not leave a trickle charger on 24/7? I thought that was the routine. You buy a good battery, a compatible trickle charger/maintainer, and leave them on until ready to ride. Using the easy connect/disconnect wire (that hangs on the side, hotwired).

I'm back to square one!!! :wow
 
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trickle charger

please don't use the term trickle charger unless you mean the old dumb device from the 60's. A modern compact affordable Battery Tender (type) device is so much smarter than the old gadget - and yes, leave it on 24/7
 
newbiker said:
Sounds Great! It seems all Noco Genius charges are great. Any idea as to why I should consider one with 5 AMPS, and not 2 AMPS, or 1 AMP? For a bike battery - a long term maintainer/charger doesn't need to be too powerful, in my opinion. But you all can shed light on the spes - such as Amps, or other technical details.
Click to expand...

Do NOT go over 1.5 amps for a charger used to charge motorcycle batteries. It will fry your battery. There is a Battery Tender designed for motorcycle batteries and it’s 1.25 amps. I have two.
 
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