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Advice on dealing with shady business

Brokenlink

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 28, 2004
Location
hangtown
Moto(s)
FZ-09

DRZ400SM
Name
Mike
So a few months ago, we placed an order and paid for half of a pig from a farm in Sacramento. It was supposed to be ready in March. Needless to say, it wasn't. We have been given every excuse in the book and a little research chows that he has pulled this same thing on several others. He usually comes through in the end, but I am beyond pissed off.

He is supposed to deliver it tomorrow, but I have every expectation that he won't. Meanwhile, he is advertising on Craigslist that he can deliver whole or half pigs within 30-45 days. And he is delivering pigs for events (like Cochon 555 which takes five fucking pigs).

In my mind this is fraud. What can I do about this other than filing a small claims case?

Thanks
 
Well, how about contacting him through craigslist and lead him to believe that if he delivers 1/2 pig within 1 week, that he'd get a sizable premium. Then when he shows up, just take it.

Clearly what he is doing is taking the bigger profit when the opportunity arises, using pigs that have been promised (and paid for) to others.

No question that he'd respond to greed, I just don't know the legal ramifications of faking that you're somebody else.
 
Well, how about contacting him through craigslist and lead him to believe that if he delivers 1/2 pig within 1 week, that he'd get a sizable premium. Then when he shows up, just take it.

Clearly what he is doing is taking the bigger profit when the opportunity arises, using pigs that have been promised (and paid for) to others.

No question that he'd respond to greed, I just don't know the legal ramifications of faking that you're somebody else.

Honestly, I really don't care about the "legal ramifications" of promising him something he won't get. It's exactly what he has been doing to me.
 
you could always sick the FDA on him. they're fucking up the raw milk people pretty regularly

find out where he's getting his feed/supplies/piglets* and mess with his supply chain?

*breeding himself i suspect, but not required

could also mail him this shirt, and threaten to make it really happen
dickhead-shirt.jpg
 
This sounds like one of those situations where, assuming you finally get yer meat, you just chalk it up to experience and never place an order with him again. I used to get half-pigs from Gary Bordessa in Valley Ford, but i don't know if he even raises them anymore. He had a dairy operation where he literally fed the pigs leftover milk products and grain, most delicious pork I ever had. Last I heard, I think Bordessa went all organic-y with his cows and is presumably making a bundle thru the Whole Paycheck type o' customer. Given our mutual location, I would call a country butcher, like Bud's Meats in Petaluma and I bet you could get a referral.

My sister raises sheep, in addition to our family cattle operation. She was hit hard by some virus a few years ago that just ruined her many orders from Orthodox Easter customers (Armenians, I think from San Joaquin Valley). From their side of things, they had placed the order (though she didn't require a deposit) and COUNTED on her to supply Easter lambs. I remember it was a nightmare for her, trying to find other producers that would let her sell their lambs and she got nothing for the transaction even. She was more bummed about letting the customers down for their sacred holiday than the actual money. But that was one of those really ugly, rainy winters and no amount of doctoring or medicine can guarantee health with sheep.

I dunno about pigs insofar as they are a much more confined animal during the raising than other livestock, who not only get disease but can be killed by several different animals, run over whatever.. There could be a story like this if its out in the country. We always raise two pigs on the ranch each year. But sometimes they escape, sometimes they die.

It could be a combination of things. If the guy has let others down, he just might not have his shit together. I have seen that, even in dairy, where you would THINK everything is neat and clean and perfect. But ranch operations vary tremendously in cleanlienss, efficiency and any other expression of stability, business or personal; just like any other business.

But pig farmers often are kinda different. That's as much as I can say without lighting the flame jets.
 
Just curious, how much does 'half a pig' cost? I know how much it costs to get a whole BBQ'd pig from a good Filipino caterer, but I'm curious how much just half a pig costs. I'm assuming that you mean half an uncooked pig, right?
 
It's not fraud if he eventually comes through.

What delivery terms did you specify in the agreement?
 
This sounds like one of those situations where, assuming you finally get yer meat, you just chalk it up to experience and never place an order with him again. I used to get half-pigs from Gary Bordessa in Valley Ford, but i don't know if he even raises them anymore. He had a dairy operation where he literally fed the pigs leftover milk products and grain, most delicious pork I ever had. Last I heard, I think Bordessa went all organic-y with his cows and is presumably making a bundle thru the Whole Paycheck type o' customer. Given our mutual location, I would call a country butcher, like Bud's Meats in Petaluma and I bet you could get a referral.

My sister raises sheep, in addition to our family cattle operation. She was hit hard by some virus a few years ago that just ruined her many orders from Orthodox Easter customers (Armenians, I think from San Joaquin Valley). From their side of things, they had placed the order (though she didn't require a deposit) and COUNTED on her to supply Easter lambs. I remember it was a nightmare for her, trying to find other producers that would let her sell their lambs and she got nothing for the transaction even. She was more bummed about letting the customers down for their sacred holiday than the actual money. But that was one of those really ugly, rainy winters and no amount of doctoring or medicine can guarantee health with sheep.

I dunno about pigs insofar as they are a much more confined animal during the raising than other livestock, who not only get disease but can be killed by several different animals, run over whatever.. There could be a story like this if its out in the country. We always raise two pigs on the ranch each year. But sometimes they escape, sometimes they die.

It could be a combination of things. If the guy has let others down, he just might not have his shit together. I have seen that, even in dairy, where you would THINK everything is neat and clean and perfect. But ranch operations vary tremendously in cleanlienss, efficiency and any other expression of stability, business or personal; just like any other business.

But pig farmers often are kinda different. That's as much as I can say without lighting the flame jets.

A couple of things:

1. Do you ever sell your beef?

2. No, this has nothing to do with farming issues. I have every suspicion that he doesn't have the capital to operate and is playing a big card game with everyone's money. We went to a pig roast in Sac this weekend, where he promised to have our pig. Well sure enough, no pig. However, the pigs for the roast (several of them) were all there.



Just curious, how much does 'half a pig' cost? I know how much it costs to get a whole BBQ'd pig from a good Filipino caterer, but I'm curious how much just half a pig costs. I'm assuming that you mean half an uncooked pig, right?

Yes, half an uncooked pig. We paid 225 for it. Now he is advertising them for 350, which is why I believe he is blowing me off. More money to be made.

It's not fraud if he eventually comes through.

What delivery terms did you specify in the agreement?

I'd be happy if he comes through. If not, I believe it is fraud.

The delivery terms were that the pig was supposed to be butchered in March. Then there was some BS about the USDA requiring some new certification and they needed to find a new butcher. Then there was some shit about some other shit. Then there was some other BS as well.
 
Yes, half an uncooked pig. We paid 225 for it. Now he is advertising them for 350, which is why I believe he is blowing me off. More money to be made.


How big is this pig? That's just slightly less than my cousin paid for a whole cooked pig a couple weeks ago.
 
How big is this pig? That's just slightly less than my cousin paid for a whole cooked pig a couple weeks ago.

90 pounds after butchering.

So this includes butchering and wrapping, and it's organic heritage pork. Or so he says.
 
Answers as I can.

No, we take them to market. The beef I get is what my brother and Dad hold back just for the family. But there are some local grass-fed producers who almost always go through small grocery or butcher places. I can ask my Dad, he's the brand inspector and works the Petaluma auction yard (he subs for the regular guy who is on leave) for a referral of a respectable producer. There might be an online directory, I'll look into it.

The fact that he supplied the roast and not you is probably because of his local reputation. He'd be in deep shit with his neighbors for wrecking a community bbq and its really bad when you have mutual favors and personal reputations on the line. Producers like to look like the good guy when they supply community events, like rodeos and fairs. And it's possible that they placed the order before you, but I really think the former answer is correct.

Based on the price increase, it kinda sounds like he gave you too low a price and your order is the last one he wants to fill. But you have a deposit, so he has to get around to finally filling it.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the market price for hogs has gone up (which locals usually base their price on), this happens with beef production too, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is some new level of certification being imposed. And the price of gas means feed has gone up, too. And further confounding the issue, I have had more problems with butchers than with producers over the years. Sometimes they can get flaky too. Or swamped with orders. All of these things put you on the end of a long chain of circumstances.

If I were you, I would ask for my deposit back and walk if he doesn't deliver by tomorrow. And I know this is a hassle but maybe its the fastest, cleanest break you can make, even though you lose on what you were looking forward to. You might have to drive up there and get in his face to collect it, too.

So sorry, this does not help an area of commerce that should be encouraged, not discouraged, cause yer not goin thru the commercial process.

I wonder if every producer requires a deposit. My sister never has for her lambs. Cash on delivery or pick-up.

Hopefully, this will all be resolved by tomorrow.

Editing in: just looked at the Yelp. Yikes. I would wait until you either have the pork or your deposit back (of course, now I know he won't have the deposit based on the supplier entry) before registering your Yelp blast. You might have to use small claims court on the guy. . But that organic heritage bit is kind of a tell....

Regular small-time producers sit back and watch higher profile people with risky business models and shake their heads. I bet the guy you ordered from has been on tv or something, too, with all that heritage bit. It sounds like he is trying to thread the line of precise production based on orders. Pigs and other livestock aren't widgets. It's never so precise.

Or he may just be a drinker or something.
 
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Answers as I can.

No, we take them to market. The beef I get is what my brother and Dad hold back just for the family. But there are some local grass-fed producers who almost always go through small grocery or butcher places. I can ask my Dad, he's the brand inspector and works the Petaluma auction yard (he subs for the regular guy who is on leave) for a referral of a respectable producer. There might be an online directory, I'll look into it.

The fact that he supplied the roast and not you is probably because of his local reputation. He'd be in deep shit with his neighbors for wrecking a community bbq and its really bad when you have mutual favors and personal reputations on the line. Producers like to look like the good guy when they supply community events, like rodeos and fairs. And it's possible that they placed the order before you, but I really think the former answer is correct.

Based on the price increase, it kinda sounds like he gave you too low a price and your order is the last one he wants to fill. But you have a deposit, so he has to get around to finally filling it.

But I wouldn't be surprised if the market price for hogs has gone up (which locals usually base their price on), this happens with beef production too, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is some new level of certification being imposed. And the price of gas means feed has gone up, too. And further confounding the issue, I have had more problems with butchers than with producers over the years. Sometimes they can get flaky too. Or swamped with orders. All of these things put you on the end of a long chain of circumstances.

If I were you, I would ask for my deposit back and walk if he doesn't deliver by tomorrow. And I know this is a hassle but maybe its the fastest, cleanest break you can make, even though you lose on what you were looking forward to. You might have to drive up there and get in his face to collect it, too.

So sorry, this does not help an area of commerce that should be encouraged, not discouraged, cause yer not goin thru the commercial process.

I wonder if every producer requires a deposit. My sister never has for her lambs. Cash on delivery or pick-up.

Hopefully, this will all be resolved by tomorrow.

Editing in: just looked at the Yelp. Yikes. I would wait until you either have the pork or your deposit back (of course, now I know he won't have the deposit based on the supplier entry). You might have to small claims court the guy. But it was a good price. But that organic heritage bit is pure b.s.

Thanks
 
So a few months ago, we placed an order and paid for half of a pig from a farm in Sacramento. It was supposed to be ready in March. Needless to say, it wasn't. We have been given every excuse in the book and a little research chows that he has pulled this same thing on several others. He usually comes through in the end, but I am beyond pissed off.

He is supposed to deliver it tomorrow, but I have every expectation that he won't. Meanwhile, he is advertising on Craigslist that he can deliver whole or half pigs within 30-45 days. And he is delivering pigs for events (like Cochon 555 which takes five fucking pigs).

In my mind this is fraud. What can I do about this other than filing a small claims case?

Thanks

How is this shady if it is known he takes forever? I would call him up and tell him you are coming over for the pig and there better be one there. If there is no pig then get your money back. If you can get an officer to come it would be a bonus. Oh yea once this is done you need to do the barf requirement of upper decking the toilet.
 
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How is this shady if it is known he takes forever? I would call him up and tell him you are coming over for the pig and there better be one there.

It's shady because he wasn't "known" to take this long. He promised us a pig in March. Here we are halfway through May.

Let me put this to you another way. You bring your moto in for service. Dude tells you it will be ready in one week. Weeks later, you start asking where the hell your bike is. "Oh, we're out of blinker fluid. It will be ready tomorrow."

You show up the next day and it's "Oh, yeah, the mechanic is sick today."

And so on, and so forth.
 
Man, I looked at some of the advertisers on the web for organic and grass-fed and they were pricey and precious!

If, by the time you are through all of this, you still want to try and find a different source for your meat, take a ride or drive up to Bud's. Try some product from local producers and remember their names. Ask about placing an order for half or whatever and if they will recommend someone. They want the cutting and wrapping business. I would not go straight to a producer from the Net. They're just too precious. If Alice Waters or Zazu shops there, you are gonna get cleaned out.

Here's a review on Bud's at YELP:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/buds-custom-meats-penngrove-2
 
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