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B is full: Roll with the Bigdawgs in A, or chill in C?

S

SikMoto

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Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Location
San Luis Obispo
Moto(s)
Yup
Name
Matt
This came up on my local riding board.... Im kind of curious what other trackday goers thoughts are on this.

Scenario^^^: You're a B-group rider, mid-level. You are DEDICATED to going to THIS trackday. You waited until the last second, and finally discover that there are no B-group spots left. What do you do: Chance A-group, and risk being a moving obstacle, or sign up in C, dodging slow bikes left and right, hoping to move up to (an already full) B-group?

Disclaimer: I have no intention of attending this track day, I only want to know what the more experienced riders would do in this situation.

Readyyyyyyy...... GO! :ride
 
never go up a class until you are ready. that would be a good way to get in over your head trying to keep up with faster riders, as well as pissing a bunch of people off. A group is deep water. imo its a much bigger jump than b-c :ride

it would be much easier and safer to slow down (and you could work on passing skills!).

as mentioned, the promotors set a limit to the number of sign-ups, but if they see you obviously in the wrong group they'll move you no prob.:thumbup
 
C. If you're too fast for the slower group they'll bump you up. Besides, not everyone shows up--a spot or two will open up in B. Just sign up in C and ask for the move after a couple of sessions if they don't take the initiative.

If you were a little faster I'd suggest A. Nothing wrong with being a little slower in A, but if the speed delta is too big then it gets unsafe, or at least annoying for everyone else.
 
ar15600rr said:
blow by all the c riders and than the promoter will ask you to move up to B
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And this is what happens at trackdays. "Blow-bys" not friendly and not particularly safe.
DucatiHoney said:
C. If you're too fast for the slower group they'll bump you up. Besides, not everyone shows up--a spot or two will open up in B. Just sign up in C and ask for the move after a couple of sessions if they don't take the initiative.

If you were a little faster I'd suggest A. Nothing wrong with being a little slower in A, but if the speed delta is too big then it gets unsafe, or at least annoying for everyone else.
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That is exactly what he will be doing in C, from the suggestions. More and more, the C groups are filled with people that don't belong there speed wise. Too many track day participants forget that there is no plastic trophy at the end of the session. If you are in C, and think that you are fast, then you should have the skill to pass easily without spooking the other riders. I see the opposite, quite often.

Do organizers actually ask people to move up a group? I have never experienced this phenomenon.
 
clutchslip said:
Do organizers actually ask people to move up a group? I have never experienced this phenomenon.
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Z2 kicked me outta C group around may or june of last year at infineon. Bumped me up to b group and told me never to sign up for c group ever again...

anyhoo, i doubt i was scaring the slower riders in c group as z2 has an outside passing only policy... just one of the instructors thought it was safer for me to go to b group instead of passing 5 or 6 riders on the outside of the carousel with the knee down grinding it through the whole turn... nevermind the fact I ended up crashing in t11 on the next to last session causing it to get black flagged... :laughing
 
megaspaz said:
Z2 kicked me outta C group around may or june of last year at infineon. Bumped me up to b group and told me never to sign up for c group ever again...

anyhoo, i doubt i was scaring the slower riders in c group as z2 has an outside passing only policy... just one of the instructors thought it was safer for me to go to b group instead of passing 5 or 6 riders on the outside of the carousel with the knee down grinding it through the whole turn... nevermind the fact I ended up crashing in t11 on the next to last session causing it to get black flagged... :laughing
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ZZ - ah, I have heard these rumors.
Passing on the outside of 6 is one of safest places to pass on our local tracks. Obviously they saw something, and wanted you with the other crashers. :laughing
 
^Lolz


I moved up to A recently and its all not that bad. you will learn a few things really quick. like dont hug the outside line because even if you think your out of the way ZOOM someone will find alittle room to squeeze by.

just do your thing and try and be predictable. if your too slow IM sure you will find out REAL fast.
 
megaspaz said:
Z2 kicked me outta C group around may or june of last year at infineon. Bumped me up to b group and told me never to sign up for c group ever again...
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I would have kicked you out too. What were you thinking...wasting all of Ken Hill's tutelage in C Group? :laughing
 
Chances are, there's someone in B group that doesn't belong there. Find them and tell them to trade your C spot. Just start off the offer with "For your own safety..." :teeth
 
When you first move to A don't use the whole track. When practical leave 6 feet on the outside while on the brakes going in and also on the gas coming out. Feel free to be tight to the apex, no problem there.

When you get to the speed where you need to be close to the outside of the track approaching the entry of a turn, aim or start moving to the edge of the track sooner than later. One way to get hit is to be going down a straight section mid or even outer 1/3 of the track, start braking and as you are braking you move further outside to set up for the corner.

Be predictable as you get faster and need to use more track. Say you exit a left corner and you want to set up on the outside of the track for the upcoming right hander. If practical try and get set up as far left as you are ever going to get before you start braking. This helps the faster guys behind you predict what you are going to do. This is of course not practical in all corners especially when they flow one into another, but it's easy to do if there is even a short straight between corners.
 
ar15600rr said:
blow by all the c riders and than the promoter will ask you to move up to B
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Don't count on it.

If a day is full, there isn't as much flexibility to move people arround. We set limits to the number of riders in a group for a variety of reasons, inclduing everyone's safety and enjoyment. Groups are marked as full for a reason.

If people sign up for the wrong group and feel entitled to just be moved to a full group, those people may find that they will need to ride in the group for which they signed up, following the rules for that group.
 
Dude, you're not there yet. It is NOT just the speed differential, it is plain old time in the seat on the racetrack. You need as much time in the seat as possible first. Going up to A early is a mistake and maybe a dangerous one.

Your time would be better spent in C group, working on reference points, nailing your corner speed, getting familiar with the track so that you know it and your lines ice-cold-perfect. You can still do this in C group. C group is still time on the track.

A group is for VERY EXPERIENCED RIDERS. I think I did something like 20 trackdays first and was doing steady laps well into the 2:0x's at thunderhill before I moved up to A group. Even now I'm still slow for A group but I don't do kooky stuff out there and am very predictable and because of that the super fast guys have no trouble passing me and I'm not a hazard.

Time in the saddle <----get more of it. Not in A group yet. Go dominate C group if you can't get bumped to B. Lots of guys quit early in the afternoon--there is sure to be room to move to B then. You'll know when you're ready for A group. You won't have to ask anyone.

Best,

Sam
 
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If you are not that far off the A minimum (more appropriately, it is a maximum) then you could move up to A. Although faster, this group has racers and experienced track riders who, in theory, would know how to handle a slower rider. Just don't try to keep up or EVER drag race to the turns then park. There is no harm in being passed. It's just a track day.
I have seen the effects of "trying to keep up". This guy kept doing the old speed up on the straights and park in the turns with me at Infineon. I waited patiently to pass in a safe area. I KNOW he could tell I was trying to get around him. Leaving 8 I set up to pass through 8A down into 9. He decided top drag race me. I thought to myself "Well, we can both rip on down to the approach but it is only I who can take 9 at this rate of speed." I left him plenty of room and sure enough, he blew 9. Good thing there is run off there.
Don't get caught up in this type of thing if you do move up.
I can guarantee this. Moving up to A will make you faster, eventually. You can learn a lot by following and watching.

If you move down to C, you WILL be a menace. Either you will get pissed off and ride like a douche or you will ride deftly through traffic at substantially greater speeds, scaring the shit outta slow and leisurely riders. They paid the same as you but to ride at a safe and comfortable pace without being buzzed constantly.

Having said all of this, it really depends on the day.
Two weeks ago I was @ Infineon with K@TT and I was one of the fastest guys in A at 1:49-1:51. If the usual suspects were there, I would have been buzzed by them while they did 1:42s or less.
Each day is different. The K@TT day before AMA was unusually fast and even with 1:52s I wouldn't have ridden in A.
The bottom line would be to be considerate at all track days.
It costs $300 to ride Infineon. Add a set of clip ons, rears sets, and bodywork any the costs go up very fast.
Ride safe and enjoy!:thumbup
 
DrSwade said:
Hey Sammy. When you bringing that RC8R to the track?
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See you at Thill on Nov 6. If you're busting out 1:50's you'll be embarrassing me in A group. :) :)

P.S. The stuff you're describing above is exactly why I think C group, while not ideal, is less bad than A group for a guy who hasn't had a lot of seat time.
 
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