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BART Strike Thread

750_sport said:
They couldnt cut their labor costs... Thats a big reason they went down hill. They also didnt have much flavor in the brands. How many times can you make the same car over and over and still have it sell?
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GM management didn't fund their pensions for a couple years. Before that, they had plenty of money for their pensioners because they always funded their pension. A company with a regularly funded pension plan will have enough money. Instead, they just used that money to build plants in China & move manufacturing over to $5/day labor with the profits going to China. All auto manufacturing plants in China are 1/2 owned by the Chinese. And keep in mind that GM is still the #2 auto manufacturer in the world right behind Toyota.

GM's management could've used the knowledge they had from their joint venture at Nummi to improve their products, but management choose not to. It's been 25 years since that plant was open and they have not used what they learned at their other plants. Nummi proves that union labor can produce high quality cars even in a high cost area of the country due to its efficiency. Nummi's mere existence proves that management is solely at fault for not incorporating Toyota's production system which resulted in GM's demise here in the U.S.


750_sport said:
BUT... When you have two guys to install a bart car seat?
One to place it. Another to bolt it down.... All just to protect a job? \.
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No..... its 2 people to lift up the seat and then replace the seat. If only one person does it, then there's an increased risk of the guy hurting his back. These people do not replace just one seat..... they replace many seats over and over. Having 2 people lift these seats up makes it easier on the back and reduces the chances of injury. That's just one example of what a "work rule" protects. It's something worth fighting to keep.
 
750_sport said:
Unions are what killed our auto industry.
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Well, they got lucky. They haven't succeeded in killing the German, Italian, French, Swedish, or Mexican auto industries...all totally or partially unionized.

Of course, all the billions and billions of dollars the US auto industry made from the 1930s through the 90s, that was all management, not the unions.
 
I have a strong opinion on this, but it's also sort of a middle ground.

Suffice to say that I agree unions were instrumental in improvements to work conditions many years ago, and provided assurance to the common laborer or tradesman. I also feel that there are unions today that still serve their intended purposes. However, those groups are the minority. And as a former UAW member, I fully believe that the unions bear a heavy responsibility for the current state of the US auto industry.

I have all kinds of numbers to back this up, but it's late, and I have to be at my non-union job in the morning. ;)
 
Gabe said:
We can get together over a burger at the Junction and I'll lay out my case for the class struggle, and why we need to make ashtrays out of the skulls of everybody making over $250k a year.
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Gabe, how can I apply for this ashtray making job? BTW, I minored in ashtray making at Pepperdine.

:ride
 
Gabe said:
Well, they got lucky. They haven't succeeded in killing the German, Italian, French, Swedish, or Mexican auto industries...all totally or partially unionized.
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The difference between the U.S. & other countries is the proliferation of U.S. union busting firms hire by companies to spread lies in order to scapegoat workers. "The unions killed the company", they will lie. They come under the guise of "Labor Relations Consultants" who provide "union avoidance strategies". Until recently, the use of union busters was mostly a U.S. phenomenon, but is spreading to other industrialized countries.

Union Busting 101 "Who Are They?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddjIJ-4y1mw
 
fuck all now i gotta buy gabe, motorama and elmergentry a pint, or two? whatdouyasayguys? tornado? it's in the lower haight.........?
i can't afford more than three or so for others though, in addition to myself, well it might just be outside of the budget. i am a working man, at least some of the times that is....
.too bad market share is so sucky in alameda county, but it could be worse.
 
hophead said:
gabe and motorama got totally free beers if you're ever in my neck of the woods. no this is not an m4m, i'm just sayin'...............:Port
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Dude, what about me??
 
hophead said:
ceo pay in this country is insane. lots of managers get rewarded for failure because they are in a position to manipulate the numbers. managers are often way overrated and labor has been devalued for too long.

all these "educated" people never learned the history of labor rights because schools no longer teach that and their parents never installed the value. fucking shame i say...

real earnings adjusted for inflation have been under assault since the times of ronald corporate puppet reagan, prior to which people didn't carry around credit card debt, 6 year automobile payments, $20k cal berkeley yearly admission rates, skyrocketing health care costs, a shifting of the tax burden onto the working class, and on and on.

i say again who wants to kick a millionaire's ass?:teeth
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Why do you single out CEO's pay? How do you feel about Hollywood actors and professional athletes and other celebrities? Should we put salary caps on people like Tiger Woods and Will Smith or are you only in favor of punishing CEOs because it is popular left-wing mantra?
 
750_sport said:
They couldnt cut their labor costs... Thats a big reason they went down hill. They also didnt have much flavor in the brands. How many times can you make the same car over and over and still have it sell?

For the record........
I have owned over 65 cars,trucks, motorcycles
Some GM, some Ford.

Now I own two toyotas, subaru, nissan, ferrari, and a bunch of ducati's
Thats want jumps out at me. I do like the new retro z28, But I'll wait to see what happens next year before buying one. I already own a track car so not sure what to do with it. I just know I like it and want one.

I really wish the GTO was still around. Ford and GM could do allot of they brought the cars from other markets into the U.S.
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Well actually, what killed the automobile industry was the politicians. Remember Nixon? I don't really, but I was alive when he was around. He, and our wonderful Washington DC leadership bent to the auto industry lobbyists and allowed a rule change so that the Auto Industry (and anyone else with a defined pension) only had to fund 80% of the pension payout. "We need it to stay competitive they said" when they "borrowed" the money from the pension fund (money they never, ever paid back.) A few years later under Ford, it was relaxed again, and again under Reagan, and so on. Now they don't even have to fund it, but they're contractually obliged to pay it out every month.

It was poor management and short-sided budgeting that put the auto industry where it is now. Government Motors, Ford, and Chrysler only exist now to fund retirement and health care because the companies spent all the money they agreed to save.

That and a number of other things, the least of which is the union.

Edit: Wanna know why United went bankrupt? Same reason.
 
boney said:
Well actually, what killed the automobile industry was the politicians. Remember Nixon? I don't really, but I was alive when he was around. He, and our wonderful Washington DC leadership bent to the auto industry lobbyists and allowed a rule change so that the Auto Industry (and anyone else with a defined pension) only had to fund 80% of the pension payout. "We need it to stay competitive they said" when they "borrowed" the money from the pension fund (money they never, ever paid back.) A few years later under Ford, it was relaxed again, and again under Reagan, and so on. Now they don't even have to fund it, but they're contractually obliged to pay it out every month.

It was poor management and short-sided budgeting that put the auto industry where it is now. Government Motors, Ford, and Chrysler only exist now to fund retirement and health care because the companies spent all the money they agreed to save.

That and a number of other things, the least of which is the union.

Edit: Wanna know why United went bankrupt? Same reason.
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Union leaders lent out pension money to the mob for so called 'legit loans', wonder how much of that was repaid. Union corruption was HUGE from the early 30's to the 80's +.
 
boney said:
Remember Nixon? I don't really, but I was alive when he was around.
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Yes, I remember old Milhouse well. I was born just about the time Moby Dick was a minnow, so I remember Johnson, Kennedy, and yes even Eisenhour.
 
hophead said:
fuck all now i gotta buy gabe, motorama and elmergentry a pint, or two? whatdouyasayguys? tornado? it's in the lower haight.........?
i can't afford more than three or so for others though, in addition to myself, well it might just be outside of the budget. i am a working man, at least some of the times that is....
.too bad market share is so sucky in alameda county, but it could be worse.
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There are still a few of us old commies around. Mostly because we are living proof that motorcycles don't "necessarily" kill all the people who have been riding them for decades.
Make mine an O'Doul's though, so I make it home.:)
 
moto-rama said:
There are still a few of us old commies around. Mostly because we are living proof that motorcycles don't "necessarily" kill all the people who have been riding them for decades.
Make mine an O'Doul's though, so I make it home.:)
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Damn dude.
Motorcycles dont kill people, :wow and to think all these years I have been doing quick searches for guns and knifes that would surely get me one day,

I'm kinda glad bart didnt strike. Peopl now days tend to not be so happy about striking workers that have a job. Most think they should feel greatfull to even have a job. They talked about that last night on the news...
 
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