bitcoins

[redruM]

Doesn't pull back the curtain the way I had hoped, but thought-provoking nonetheless

[youtube]ORdWE_ffirg[/youtube]

 

[jiffy]

Means absolutely nothing since the volume is fake and it's an entirely speculative asset with no real word use cases. Probably whales chasing bear stop losses.

Bed Bath and Beyond stock is up 20% this month. That doesn't make it a good investment.

I reiterate my price target of 0 for Bitcoin.

Let me know when you go all in on BTC puts. Until then keep yelling at the clouds.

 

[Holeshot]

BTC puts have to be gambling squared, right?

 

[Climber]

With gambling, you usually know the odds.

 

[Holeshot]

$44B: 1

 

[mrzuzzo]

Let me know when you go all in on BTC puts. Until then keep yelling at the clouds.

Yeah, I should buy them in the top crypto derivatives platform, FTX

No point gambling against the casino for me. It might go to 200k before it goes to 0.

At least I know the odds at the casino.

Patiently waiting for Tether to collapse. It should suck out a massive amount of liquidity from the market and sink the price.

 

[panthera]

Ahh, the same old nonsense form those that don't understand the technology. Bitcoin is not like a casino. While the price of Bitcoin can be volatile and subject to fluctuations, this is not the same as gambling. In a casino, the odds are always in favor of the house and the outcome is determined by chance. With Bitcoin, the price is determined by market demand and the underlying technology offers a transparent and secure method of transferring value. It is a decentralized asset that provides users with more control over their funds and eliminates intermediaries, making it a true innovation in the financial world. Comparing Bitcoin to a casino is not an inaccurate comparison.

A Ponzi scheme is an investment scam where returns are paid to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors, rather than from profit earned. Bitcoin, on the other hand, operates on a decentralized network, powered by its users who validate transactions and maintain the integrity of the system through a consensus mechanism called "proof of work". This means that there is no central authority controlling Bitcoin and manipulating it to serve their own interests. The supply of Bitcoin is capped at 21 million, making it finite and scarce, unlike a Ponzi scheme where there is an infinite supply of fake assets being circulated. To say that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme would be a misunderstanding of both the technology and the principles it was founded upon.

 

[byke]

Kinda fixing a nonexistent problem. Like stock markets, which people often refer to as gambling, the price is also determined by market demand. And yes, you have the bonus of having a very secure method of transferring funds around, but losing assets during stock transfers is exceedingly rare. Maybe once people start having that problem, they'll feel the need to fix it and then btc goes to the super ultra mega moon.

 

[ScarySpikes]

Ahh, the same old nonsense form those that don't understand the technology. Bitcoin is not like a casino. While the price of Bitcoin can be volatile and subject to fluctuations, this is not the same as gambling. In a casino, the odds are always in favor of the house and the outcome is determined by chance. With Bitcoin, the price is determined by market demand and the underlying technology offers a transparent and secure method of transferring value. It is a decentralized asset that provides users with more control over their funds and eliminates intermediaries, making it a true innovation in the financial world. Comparing Bitcoin to a casino is not an inaccurate comparison.

A Ponzi scheme is an investment scam where returns are paid to existing investors from funds contributed by new investors, rather than from profit earned. Bitcoin, on the other hand, operates on a decentralized network, powered by its users who validate transactions and maintain the integrity of the system through a consensus mechanism called "proof of work". This means that there is no central authority controlling Bitcoin and manipulating it to serve their own interests. The supply of Bitcoin is capped at 21 million, making it finite and scarce, unlike a Ponzi scheme where there is an infinite supply of fake assets being circulated. To say that Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme would be a misunderstanding of both the technology and the principles it was founded upon.

Functionally, Bitcoin success is pretty interconnected to the interest and trust in cryptocurrency as a whole. The problem is, even if BTC itself isn't a Ponzi scheme, (arguable) Crypto as a whole is scams all the way down, and as more and larger crypto scams collapse in more and more dramatic ways, they will drag BTC and all other crypto down with them.

 

[panthera]

While it is true that the growth of the cryptocurrency market, including Bitcoin, is connected to public trust and interest, it is not accurate to say that all cryptocurrencies are scams. The notion that crypto is scams all the way down is a gross generalization and lacks proper evidence.

Cryptocurrency is a relatively new asset class and like any emerging technology, it has its fair share of fraudulent activities and scams. However, this does not mean that all cryptocurrencies are scams or that the entire market is inherently fraudulent. The vast majority of cryptocurrencies have legitimate applications and have been adopted by individuals and businesses for various purposes.

It is important to note that the cryptocurrency market is highly regulated, and authorities are working to crack down on fraudulent activities. Many exchanges have implemented strict security measures to protect their users, and new technologies like blockchain have made it easier to track transactions and prevent fraud.

While scams and fraudulent activities do exist in the cryptocurrency market, it is not accurate to say that all cryptocurrencies are scams, or that the success of Bitcoin is interconnected to the prevalence of scams in the crypto market.
As far as no use case, that is just plain wrong. Maybe its more accurate to say that there is no use case for YOU. I know plenty of people that had no other way to get money out of Russia after the war started. With Swift shut down, their only way to get money in or out is in the form of Bitcoin.

 

[mbsv]

well what is the success of it?

as far as i can tell it's....

enthusiasm, based on ???

evasion of banking regulations, be that to procure banned items or transfer money out of places which have banking bans, be those bans for good or bad reason (compare russia w/south america)

scammers

the second provides a reason. the first and last provide the increase in 'value' of 'coins'.

 

[panthera]

Some individuals use cryptocurrency for illegal activities such as evading banking regulations, scamming others, or to buy illegal goods, it is important to note that this represents a small fraction of the overall use of bitcoin. The vast majority of individuals and businesses who use bitcoin do so for legitimate reasons, such as taking advantage of the benefits of decentralization, lower transaction fees, and increased privacy. Many reputable organizations and governments are exploring the use of bitcoin and blockchain technology for various purposes, further legitimizing its use. Almost 10% of all bitcoin in circulation is help by corporate treasuries of public companies.

 

[mbsv]

Increased privacy? Say what?

The entire functionality of bitcoin is a world-wide world-readable distributed public ledger of every bitcoin transaction across all (bitcoin) time.

This is the exact opposite of privacy, though it's true transactions take place with pseudonymous handles.

I totally believe that many of them are now held by public companies, the same sort of places which brought us the 2008 mortgage crisis--they hop on something going up and hope not to be holding the bag when the music stops.

 

[cheez]

Increased privacy? Say what?

The entire functionality of bitcoin is a world-wide world-readable distributed public ledger of every bitcoin transaction across all (bitcoin) time.

This is the exact opposite of privacy, though it's true transactions take place with pseudonymous handles.

I totally believe that many of them are now held by public companies, the same sort of places which brought us the 2008 mortgage crisis--they hop on something going up and hope not to be holding the bag when the music stops.

How does one go about associating an individual with a bitcoin ledger address? I'm curious.

 

[mrzuzzo]

Some individuals use cryptocurrency for illegal activities such as evading banking regulations, scamming others, or to buy illegal goods, it is important to note that this represents a small fraction of the overall use of bitcoin. The vast majority of individuals and businesses who use bitcoin do so for legitimate reasons, such as taking advantage of the benefits of decentralization, lower transaction fees, and increased privacy. Many reputable organizations and governments are exploring the use of bitcoin and blockchain technology for various purposes, further legitimizing its use. Almost 10% of all bitcoin in circulation is help by corporate treasuries of public companies.

The main use of Bitcoin is losing money. I think half of all coins are considered lost forever are they not?

How does one go about associating an individual with a bitcoin ledger address? I'm curious.

Been done over and over. US govt has seized Bitcoin many times.

Nobody's got perfect opsec. Being your own bank ain't easy.

 

[cheez]

Been done over and over. US govt has seized Bitcoin many times.

Nobody's got perfect opsec. Being your own bank ain't easy.

They've done this by court order, and it required subpoenas to ISPs and the seizure of the private keys in the possession of the suspect.

That's a much narrower vector than "it's not anonymous, it's a public ledger" as was posited.

It is an anonymous system. Just like cash is. If the government has the serials of the bills in your possession, they can trace cash back to you also, especially with the help of corporations in the middle.

I challenge you, or mbsv, or anyone, to tell me how you can de-anonymize bitcoin. Not a government, but you. Has that "been done over and over"?

 

[mrzuzzo]

They've done this by court order, and it required subpoenas to ISPs and the seizure of the private keys in the possession of the suspect.

That's a much narrower vector than "it's not anonymous, it's a public ledger" as was posited.

It is an anonymous system. Just like cash is. If the government has the serials of the bills in your possession, they can trace cash back to you also, especially with the help of corporations in the middle.

I challenge you, or mbsv, or anyone, to tell me how you can de-anonymize bitcoin. Not a government, but you. Has that "been done over and over"?

It's nothing like cash.

If I send Bitcoin to your wallet, then I know your wallet address. I can look up all the transactions you've had to that wallet and how much is in it.

Yes, you COULD create a separate wallet for each transaction and move money around, in and out of on and offramps and mixers to try to hide your tracks. Most people probably do not do that.

Jfc Bitcoin is so incredibly stupid I think I got dumber just typing this out.

 

[Holeshot]

I challenge you, or mbsv, or anyone, to tell me how you can de-anonymize bitcoin. Not a government, but you. Has that "been done over and over"?

Dan, Bitcoin grew because the presumption was government(s) couldn't track transactions. It's governments people are concerned about, not private individuals. Government has been historically draconian. And they can track bitcoin. All of it.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-...racy-launder-45-billion-stolen-cryptocurrency

 

[cheez]

It's nothing like cash.

If I send Bitcoin to your wallet, then I know your wallet address. I can look up all the transactions you've had to that wallet and how much is in it.

Yes, you COULD create a separate wallet for each transaction and move money around, in and out of on and offramps and mixers to try to hide your tracks. Most people probably do not do that.

Jfc Bitcoin is so incredibly stupid I think I got dumber just typing this out.

Yuuuup. It's called a "public ledger" and isn't nearly as scary as the volume of fear your words contain.

You can un-mix mixers and trace every bitcoin back to its mined block. You still have no way of associating that with a person.

If you think cash can't be traced, you've way too much confidence in cash.

Dan, Bitcoin grew because the presumption was government(s) couldn't track transactions. It's governments people are concerned about, not private individuals. Government has been historically draconian. And they can track bitcoin. All of it.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/two-...racy-launder-45-billion-stolen-cryptocurrency

Newp.

Berto, Bitcoin grew because government can't CONTROL bitcoin. Not because it's somehow immune to being surveilled and traced. Only an idiot would read the Bitcoin protocol and think there's no record of how Bitcoin moves within the network.

Fiat is subject to the whims of the nation backing it. The USD is continually losing value because more USD is being printed. No more Bitcoin will ever be produced once the last one is mined. It is not subject to the whims of governments, short of them "banning" it and then somehow trying to filter the protocol off of literally every network, private and public, in their nation.

Again, show me how any person can de-anonymize bitcoin. I'll continue to wait. I won't hold my breath.

 

[panthera]

Bitcoin's growth wasn't solely due to the belief that governments couldn't track transactions. In fact, it was created as a response to the 2008 financial crisis and aimed to offer an alternative to the traditional financial system. It offers several advantages like peer-to-peer transactions without intermediaries, low transaction fees, and high security.

While it is true that governments have the resources and power to track Bitcoin transactions, it's not as easy as it seems. Bitcoin transactions are publicly recorded on a decentralized ledger called the blockchain, but the identities of users are hidden through pseudonyms (public addresses). This makes it difficult for governments to track individual transactions. Not to mention the Lightning network which adds another level of privacy. The Lightning Network increases privacy by allowing for off-chain transactions. These transactions are not recorded on the blockchain and are instead recorded in a network of payment channels between users. This allows for faster, cheaper, and more private transactions as it reduces the amount of data that needs to be publicly recorded on the blockchain. Users can also use routing nodes that do not reveal the original source or destination of a transaction, further increasing privacy.

The thing is, there is more being built on top of Bitcoin and more development happening every day. The last upgrade (Taproot) gave anyone wanting to develop and contribute to the network a whole new tool kit to do so. I know many of you don't care but there will be a lot of things happening in this space in the next 10 years and it would behove you to get educated as to what this really is. You all that live in the Bay Area have LOTS of free resources and people who will do this for free. You can go to Meetup.com and check out the groups you have there. The Bay Area Bitcoiners is a consortium of 5 different groups spread out across the Bay. Go see them and ask all of these questions you have. With an open mind, you will be surprised by what you learn.

https://www.meetup.com/bay-area-bitcoiners/events/290733259/