brake pad life?

[afm199]

Fine dude. Your dick is bigger than mine. You car experience translates directly into moto experience and you are the man. And be sure and pump up your tires will you? The manufacturer recommends 38/42

 

[auntiebling]

No slang/porr mans speak allowed.

i won't say it shouldn't be allowed, but it certainly should be minimized. this is a technical section of teh BARF and precision communication is potentially life critical. slang, porr mans speak, vernacular even, can lead to critical misunderstandings, especially with questions asked by novice mechanics. also, the search function occasionally gets used around these parts so whatever colorful prose you choose to use now might be perfectly in context, but when someone digs that post up 5 years down the road and only reads your post to diagnose or plot a course of action the interpretation might be different.

 

[ST Guy]

All brake pads, regardless of composition, leave a thin layer or deposit of pad material on the rotor. Putting this layer on is important for proper brake performance. If you're switching to new pads and they're the same as the old, there's no reason to clean the rotors. Just bed them in and keep on going. If you're changing materials, it's best to throughly clean the rotor, or better yet, replace it. If you're in the habit of changing to different type pads, for instance, for a track day, then it's best to keep a set of pads AND rotors set aside just for that use. Mark the rotors and pads so that you know which side and whether inside or outside the parts go.

I don't recall anyone addressing the problem that the OP has with respect to wearing out only one pad. I'm assuming that on his bike, there are pistons on only one side of the caliper and that the caliper is of the design where the caliper floats from side to side on pins. Wearing only one pad like that means that the calipers are hanging up on the pins and it's not centering itself like it should through the life of the pads. To take care of this problem, the caliper must be separated so that the pins and the holes they fit into can be thoroughly cleaned and then lubed. Sometimes this can be done with the caliper on the bike, and even if it must be removed from the forks, only very rarely is it necessary to loose the brake line. Once separated, check for rust, corrosion of both the pin and the hole it goes into. If necessary, replace the pins. A little steel wool on a stick down in the hole will help clean them out. Same for steel wool on the pins. Blow out any dust. (Oh, and the rubber bellows seals should be removed and if cracked or broken, they MUST be replaced.) When putting it all back together, use either some high temperature lube designed for the purpose, or use what I use which is Honda's Moly 60. It's a lube especially designed for lubing the drive splines on shaft drive bikes and can take a huge amount of abuse. And heat. Moly continues to work at obscene temperatures. Use a small stick, like a Q-Tip with the cotton removed, to thoroughly coat the ID of the hole in the calipers where the pin fits. Then a light coating on the pin itself. Don't go overboard, but don't skimp either. The rubber bellows keeps dirt and water out. After it's together, make sure the caliper halves slide apart and together easily. Then install on the bike, install the pads, pump the lever/pedal to put the pads in contact with the rotor and ride. Test brakes for function before just zooming out.

 

[afm199]

O stop with the technical speak it's obviously rider error. He's braking more on one side than the other cuz he's right handed.

 

[deathbug74]

Uneven pad wear like that, where one pad wears faster than the other, is a sure sign of a binding caliper. Three causes most common on a floating caliper setup like yours:

1. Caliper slides dry or tweaked
2. Piston(s) binding in bores, not fully retracting when lever released
3. Excessive hydraulic pressure caused by incorrect lever adjustment or too much fluid in reservoir, which will cause piston seizure like #2

I suspect #1 is your problem, but I'd redo the front brakes entirely:

• Dismantle and clean out the piston bores.
• Totally service the caliper hardware paying close attention to the sliders for smooth, unrestricted movement.
• Replace the disc if it's scored or too thin, or resurface it if it's OK.
• New pads.
• Flush the fluid with DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 making sure to not overfill it when you're done.

i haven't mucked with lever adjustment (and based on the previous owner's habit of having EVERYTHING done by the dealer, and not noticing the problem with the last set of pads, doubt he did either); fluid level was between the marks on the reservoir trough the life of the pads. the slides at least LOOKED straight when the last set of pads went in; i'll double check them when i pull the caliper apart; i cleaned and regreased them while i had it apart.

noob question though: should there be any lubricant or anything on the external "pins" the outer pad rides on?

as mototireguy guessed, the rotor is scored, mostly at the bottom edge of the pad/backing plate; there's a band in the center as well where the pad material was cleared off the rotor, but almost imperceptible as far as actual scoring there. rotor is being replaced, and might as well do a stainless line while everything's apart anyway.

What Motech said.

I'd also be very curious what pads you were running. My experience with greens is that they work well, but don't last very long. I literally wore a set out (most of the material gone) in a single day at the track.

looking at Cycle Gear's site, it looks like they were the Galfer semi-metallic

A. You have to check your brakes often.
B. You get what you pay for.
C. above post is wrong for many reasons. Metallic pads do NOT need heating up unless they are high end race pads. Organic pads DO NOT stop better and they don't work well on rotors that have been used with semi metallic pads unless the rotors are cleaned. And good enough to lock up the brakes is not how you judge brake pads. suggest a good grade HH semi metallic pad from Galfer, EBC or the stock OEM pads.

A: lesson learned
C: going with EBC HH, and a new rotor (also EBC).


Cliff notes:
-will clean the calipers THOROUGHLY, including dismantling calipers
-new rotor
-flush fluid (doing stainless line while everything's apart)
-new pads (obviously)

that about cover it? and thanks for the help/suggestions/input.

 

[deathbug74]

O stop with the technical speak it's obviously rider error. He's braking more on one side than the other cuz he's right handed.

left handed...with the pad wear, it must be one of those left hand/right brain (and pad) things

 

[auntiebling]

Cliff notes:
-will clean the calipers THOROUGHLY, including dismantling calipers
-new rotor
-flush fluid (doing stainless line while everything's apart)
-new pads (obviously)

that about cover it?

lube up the pins on reassembly if that's what you gots. any auto parts store should have brake disk slide pin grease

 

[ST Guy]

The pins could be perfectly straight and clean and still bind without proper lube. And remember, just because it's been dealer serviced, that doesn't mean it's been done properly or completely. For instance, many final drives on shaft drive bikes have been destroyed though lack of lube or lack of the proper lube on the drive splines. You'd think the folks at the dealer would know all this. But a surprisingly large number don't even know it's supposed to be lubed, let along what lube to use. So, finding a dealer shop that ignores the pins on that type of caliper would not be hard.

 

[ST Guy]

FWIW, pad materials and rotor design is one place where where motorcycles and cars do tend to differ, in my opinion.

Both convert kinetic energy into heat. Both use rotors and a sacraficial friction material on pads. Both use calipers (either type) and slotted/drilled/vented rotors. The primary differences are in size. The fundamentals apply equally to both.

 

[Burning1]

I think you miss the point of my posts. With some people, like I said, it turns into a dick measuring contest, and "if your's ins't as big as mine, your stupid and wrong, so go home." I could care less what the man does. I also speak from personal experince. I wasn't the one who started flinging shit around the room when someone pointed out what the brake pad manufacturer recomends, calling them an idiot, was I?

Dude... Ernie disagreed with you; he wasn't angry, it didn't appear to be personal. I tend to agree with his original response, and as an outside observer, I'd say that you were the first person who appeared to take offense.

I know and respect Ernie, but please don't take this as an example of people ganging up. I have a big of an ego myself, and I know how it feels to be in this situation. I'm just trying to provide some clarity.

To summarize my impression of the beginning of this conversion:

- You seemed o state that the OPs brakes were working poorly because he didn't bead blast the rotors.
- Ernie responded that, in his experience, new stintered pads should work fine without bead blasting.
- You cited Galfer's website to back up your original claim, and made a statement about glazing rotors (something I haven't seen happen on motorcycle rotors.)

I've bead blasted rotors, and I can attest that it provides a nice improvement in pad performance. However, I've run fresh pads without any sort of rotor preparation on numerous occasion, and I can say from experience that if the OP was running stintered pads, there is no reason to suspect that rotor preparation was the cause for his early pad failure.

 

[Burning1]

Both convert kinetic energy into heat. Both use rotors and a sacraficial friction material on pads. Both use calipers (either type) and slotted/drilled/vented rotors. The primary differences are in size. The fundamentals apply equally to both.

Same argument could be made about a lot of things between Motorcycles and Cars.

Cars in my observation tend to use fewer pistons (1 or two piston designs seem common.) Because of the nature of car tires, the rotors are typically shrouded by the wheel requiring ducting on high performance applications for cooling. Cars seem to be more likely to use adhesive pad design for race use than a motorcycle. Car rotors tend to be solid mounted ventilated designs, where motorcycles tend to use floating drilled rotors.

Because motorcycles are lighter, we tend to run thinner rotors that come up to temperature faster than car rotors.

My observation is that making car brakes work well under extreme use can be more difficult than with motorcycle brakes. I've driven a few cars hard enough to make the brakes visibly smoke - can't say the same for a bike.

 

[Motech]

noob question though: should there be any lubricant or anything on the external "pins" the outer pad rides on?

as mototireguy guessed, the rotor is scored, mostly at the bottom edge of the pad/backing plate; there's a band in the center as well where the pad material was cleared off the rotor, but almost imperceptible as far as actual scoring there. rotor is being replaced, and might as well do a stainless line while everything's apart anyway.

Cliff notes:
-will clean the calipers THOROUGHLY, including dismantling calipers
-new rotor
-flush fluid (doing stainless line while everything's apart)
-new pads (obviously)

that about cover it? and thanks for the help/suggestions/input.

Yeah, lube the pins. Use thick lube, but not too much, don't want any oozing out the boots. They make silicone "caliper grease" or "brake grease" especially for this, pick some up at the auto parts store. After cleaning and servicing them and before putting wheel back on, mount caliper to bracket and make sure you've got good, asstro-glide smoothness in and out.

Good idea doing stainless line at the same time. Once finished, you will be stoked.

 

[Burning1]

While you're in there, see if you can buy a caliper rebuild kit for your bike. It'll include new pistons and seals; so you can pop the old ones out, clean any gunk, and replace the pistons. In my experience, it's the most fool-proof way of rebuilding, and it's not super expensive for 2 piston floating calipers.

 

[deathbug74]

i'll have to snap a pic of the "pins" i mean when i get home...the talk of the boots says i wasnt quite clear.

(posting from phone,so i can't quote posts...)

edit: home now, and snapped a pictures. i know that the pins inside the boots need greasing (i did clean and grease these when i changed pads the last time, with some moly based wheel bearing grease).

the pin i'm not sure about is the one circled in red in the pic; the pad CAN slide a little here, but not freely.

 

[Motech]

Don't grease the pad pin you have circled, but definitely clean up that pin and make sure there's no binding there either. Pad should slide over that pin very easily with no resistance.

 

[ST Guy]

If you wanted to, after thoroughly cleaning it up, you could burnish some moly into/onto the pin and the wipe all the excess off. You'd need some very high content moly paste to do the job. (Honda's Moly 60 would work as well as any engine assembly paste.) Moly is a dry lubricant and the particles are so small that they work themselves into the pores of the metal. So, even after you wipe all the excess away (the grease that is usually a carrier for the moly), there's till some left to help things slide. But it won't migrate, like onto your pads or rotors. You just don't want to leave smears of grease of any kind in that area. Just make sure you thoroughly wipe away all excess from the pin.

 

[ST Guy]

Same argument could be made about a lot of things between Motorcycles and Cars.

Cars in my observation tend to use fewer pistons (1 or two piston designs seem common.) Because of the nature of car tires, the rotors are typically shrouded by the wheel requiring ducting on high performance applications for cooling. Cars seem to be more likely to use adhesive pad design for race use than a motorcycle. Car rotors tend to be solid mounted ventilated designs, where motorcycles tend to use floating drilled rotors.

Because motorcycles are lighter, we tend to run thinner rotors that come up to temperature faster than car rotors.

My observation is that making car brakes work well under extreme use can be more difficult than with motorcycle brakes. I've driven a few cars hard enough to make the brakes visibly smoke - can't say the same for a bike.

Don't disagree with any of the above, but those are just "details" that come up when tweaking a technology for a particular application. The fundamentals are still the same.

 

[Matt.Lai]

Funny thread.

Its an EX500, right? Its my dubious honor to be somewhat of an expert on this moto. Long story, won't bore you with the deets. EX500s will someday be my path to fame an fortune. . .

These motos are parted out in extraordinary numbers on Ebay due to both its ubiquity and newbs propensity to crash them. I'd do this: Buy a low mile, used OEM late model 94+ rotor on ebay, around $45-55 shipped to your door. Get black or HH EBC pads and call it a day.

Take apart and clean your caliper and flush/fill with new fluid. Don't bead blast anything, unless it turns you on. INSPECT YOUR BRAKES MORE OFTEN like Ernie says. YOU have no excuse for allowing metal contact, no matter how fast pads burn up.

Some have been squawking about uneven pad wear. Due to caliper design, this happens, so some unevenness is to be expected. A big difference, however, indicates pad hanging up, then that means paying attention to the sliding surfaces as others mentioned. But some unevenness? No biggie.

 

[deathbug74]

minor update now that things are back together; given how minor the scoring of the rotor was, i WAS tempted to skimp there, but with everything back together i'm glad i didn't....perhaps this was a contributor to the uneven pad wear?

this is with the rotor laying on a pretty much flat surface; it's pretty visibly 'coned'

 

[terdog55]

Look at the pin that the pad rides on. Make sure that its round and NOT SCORED where the pin meets it. Sometimes they get worn at that location, get a "lip" that prevents the pad from moving smoothly. If so, order a new one - cheaper than buying new pads.