Can't stand my helmet!

[pepesm]

My Shoei GT-Air (first generation) kept giving me headaches. Pressure points are on rear top skull, both sides, left and right. So, I will be selling it soon unless someone here has the same experience and solution to this problem.

I think ordering a new internal cushion from Shoei will do? Thicker kind? Any ideas?

Never been in a crash and I didn't notice the pressure points till after multiple rides.

(update: I put it on now while typing this, I also feel pressure points on temples, both left and right)

 

[Whammy]

The GT Air launched in 2012 just how old is your lid?
Many will argue how old is too old, but Whammy wont go over 5 years just my .02
Might be time to get a new one especially if it hurts your nugget after a ride.

 

[Rob]

As a medium Arai guy... I hated the GT air. I really wanted to like it but they f'ed up the sizing IMO.

Hoping to hear solutions so I can get one.

 

[Mellowtonin]

Have you tried on any Arai's? They might not look sexy but are the bee's knees in comfort IMHO

 

[Killroy1999]

The GT Air launched in 2012 just how old is your lid?
Many will argue how old is too old, but Whammy wont go over 5 years just my .02
Might be time to get a new one especially if it hurts your nugget after a ride.

Is there any data out there that a 5+ year uncashed helmet will not protect your head or do we just listen to the companies with a vested interest in us buying a helmet every 5 years?

 

[Blankpage]

I have a ten year old Arai like new used maybe a couple of dozen times. It’s not getting thrown out.

 

[Lowerside]

Maybe check some of the rounder oval head shape helmets? I've had issues with some intermediate oval helmets causing pressure at the rear top-left and top-right of my head unless I sized up. I did eventually land on a correctly-sized Arai Corsair-X (so still intermediate oval), but I had to futz around with the liner customization before I stopped feeling any pressure. On the plus side, it's actually well-sealed and because of that it's the most quiet helmet i've worn.

 

[DucatiHoney]

Did your head get fatter or something?

Seriously though, it sounds like it's just too small. Did you have shorter hair when you wore it the first time?

I actually looked up "foam expanding in helmet" to see if it's a thing. I didn't find it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. :shrugs

 

[Roadstergal]

I want to like Shoeis. They just don't fit my head shape. Same deal, I have to be wearing it for longer than about 20min for it to bother me, but once it does, it sure does.

Helmet trial and error gets expensive. :/

 

[pepesm]

Maybe check some of the rounder oval head shape helmets? I've had issues with some intermediate oval helmets causing pressure at the rear top-left and top-right of my head unless I sized up. I did eventually land on a correctly-sized Arai Corsair-X (so still intermediate oval), but I had to futz around with the liner customization before I stopped feeling any pressure. On the plus side, it's actually well-sealed and because of that it's the most quiet helmet i've worn.

You and I have exact some problems with the Shoei. I never had ANY problems with Arai Corsairs. I’ve been wearing Arai helmets for a long time and I guess I’ll go back into it.

I love AGV and I have two, AX8 and XG3000. Both are super-comfy. I could get the Corsa if I want to but I feel more comfy with Arai for sports riding.

I am hunkering for a good deal on a Defiant X, feels the same as Corsair and I like the look.

 

[stangmx13]

u could try thinner padding, but I doubt it will work. that might fix an overly-snug problem, but generally won't help a pressure point issue. +1 to the helmet is either too small or the wrong shape.

 

[RightCoastBias]

Is there any data out there that a 5+ year uncashed helmet will not protect your head or do we just listen to the companies with a vested interest in us buying a helmet every 5 years?

There have been some articles on this in motorags. Most a too afraid to really call out the helmet industry, though. A few go as deep as they can before losing precious ad dollars.

Basic idea is sweat, UV and other environmental factors degrade helmets.

If you're a weekend warrior who stores their helmet in a dark, cool, stable location, 5 years is probably a bit conservative. If you commute year round and are out in the Twisties every weekend putting down 30,40,50k +, 5 years doesn't seem so bad to me.

I think it's similar to 3k oil changes in cars. With modern oil and engine design, it's really not needed. Even my lady's VW recommends 6k, while the local oil change spot still sticks with 3k.

Only probably with that analogy, there have been large advancements in car/engine design. Not so much for motorcycle helmets. A lot of the same shit we had a few decades ago.

 

[dittoalex]

I had sudden screaming pain from a top skull pressure point after 45 minutes of wearing a Shoei Neotec II. It did not feel 'right' when I put it on, but did not have any discomfort before the sudden pain. I had measured my head circumference and this is the right helmet on paper, but it didn't work. The Schuberth E1 fits great, I think it has the same revised shape as the C4 Pro.

 

[S21FOLGORE]

To OP.
Read this thread, then you'll understand why you are having this (hot spot ) problem.

https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=529418

At the end of the thread, I also posted this...

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

About "replacing helmet after 5 years" thing

So, you have the helmet that you can happily wear for hours without pain, but doesn't slip around on your head.

Do you have to replace it after 5 years, as some people say?

I was kinda hesitant to post this, (because this may "open up the whole can of worms"), and it's not directly related to hot spot/ fitting problem.
,but, in the end, decided to post against my better judgment. (I originaly wrote this for ADV rider’s thread, regarding the helmet’s “sell by date”.)

First of all, I want all of you to understand that this is what SHOEI North Amarica, who is a distributor, NOT the actual helmet manufacturer, says.
(Yes, yes, I understand that for us who live in US and Canada, SHOEI North America IS SHOEI (since SHOEI Helmet in Japan won't directly communicate / do business with us), but still, you have to understand that what they(SHOEI North America) say is NOT exactly the same as
what SHOEI Helmet in Japan (as a manufacturer) says.


Now ,...

Let's get clear about the fact that SHOEI North America NEVER said the helmet is not safe to use after 5 years from the date of manufacture.
What they say, is

Even if none of these is applied, we, SHOEI, recommend replacement in 5 years after it's first purchased at retail.

(exempt from here

Helmet Replacement
Ultimately, the useful service life of a safety helmet is dependent on the intensity and frequency of its use. Helmet replacement is recommended even if only one of the under-mentioned points applies:
1. The helmet was subjected to an impact.
2. The comfort padding or the retention system has become loose due to heavy use or display signs of deterioration. Test: with the retention system fastened, the helmet turns to the side when you gently shake your head.
3. The EPS liner has come away from the helmet shell.
4. The EPS liner shows signs of wear and is beginning to break up, or if it has been exposed to heat or a solvent and has melted. There are indentations in the EPS liner and/or white scratches can be seen on surfaces with black paint.
5. Even if none of these is applied, we, SHOEI, recommend replacement in 5 years after it's first purchased at retail. )

The "5-year" time frame is NOT based on the research (of how much deterioration happens over the years).
It is decided that way for the sake of convenience (5-year limited time warranty).
(Arai North America, Schuberth North America, they all do the same. 5-year limited time warranty, recommending the helmet replacement after 5 years of use.)

You know what Arai and SHOEI (and OGK) say, in Japanese domestic market?

Let's take a look at the manuals of JDM version.

Arai

SHOEI

Yes, I know you can't read them.
But, you can see "SG" (ＳＧマーク= SG mark = SG sticker) in both Arai and SHOEI's manuals.
You can also see "3" in SHOEI's manual.
(In Arai Manual, it is writeen in Kanji character, "三" (means 3)).

What they are telling you is that they recommend to replace the helmet
AFTER 3 YEARS from the date of purchase.




Yes, 3 years.

They are telling their customers in Japan to replace their X-14 after 3 years from the date of purchase.

WHY?

Because of these.

Close Up

Can you see this ?

This is the sort of "insurance" system they have in Japan that expires after 3 years from the date of purchase.

These things have "SG sticker" ...

These things (folding walking cane) have SG sticker ...

They (the manufacturers of motorcycle helmet, boys baseball helmet, walking canes ) have to pay fairly huge amount of money and get their products certified. Otherwise, the products cannot be sold as "motorcycle helmets" or "baseball helmets" or "walking cane".
(Without certification and SG sticker, these things can be sold only as "for decoration", it's illegal to sell them as motorcycle helmet / baseball helmet / cane / cooking pot / whatever ....)

So, they tell their customers (in Japan) that they recommend to replace the helmet after 3 years, based on this system.
Not because the helmet gets deteriorated and becomes unsafe after 3 years.



As far as I could remember, this (3-year time frame for recommending helmet replacement) has not changed from all the way back to the early 1980s (when I started wearing motorcycle helmet).

So, the helmet manufacturers NEVER said the helmet is unsafe to use after 5 years from the date of manufacture.
The distributors (SHOEI North America, Arai North America, Schuberth North America, etc etc) NEVER said that either.

 

[motomania2007]

First question for every helmet BEFORE YOU BUY IT:
Does the helmet fit you head SHAPE and SIZE if you wear it for 10 minutes in the shop?

If it develops hot spots or pressure points or pinches your head after a few minutes then the helmet is the wrong size and or wrong shape.

Many people buy helmets because they like the look of the helmet or like the features of the helmet those are all nice things to have but if the helmet doesn't fit the size and shape of your head then it can't protect you as well as it should and it is definitely not as comfortable as it should be.

So having the correct size and shape are the most important features of the helmet.

Have people come to my class with helmets all the time that they bought online but never tried on and therefore have no idea if it fits them properly and a lot of times they don't fit properly. When we're talking in class about helmet fitting they bring their helmet up and show it to me and then ask me does it fit right and I point out different things that do or do not fit right just by asking them questions about shape and size and comfort.

 

[ZCrow]

10 minutes? Nope, try more like 30-60 minutes. The times I have had problems with hot spots it took at least 20-30 minutes before it was obvious. Just make sure you don't take the tags off the helmet until you have worn it for almost an hour around your house.

Is there any data out there that a 5+ year uncashed helmet will not protect your head or do we just listen to the companies with a vested interest in us buying a helmet every 5 years?

None that I know of, but on the other hand, if you ride every day, then man, I wouldn't not want to wear a helmet after five years even with cleaning. Way too much funk.

Besides, "Daddy needs a new pair of shoes!" Fashion changes baby, no one want's 5 year old style.

 

[Maddevill]

Bought a Scorpion helmet. Worst wind noise ever. Wind blew up the chinbar so bad that my eyes would water. Solved by contacting Scorpion and they sent a chin skirt, which should have been included.
Tested out a AGV which I was really hopeful about. Discovered that it rested on my glasses driving the nose bridge right down on my schnozz. Super painful. So I'm sticking to Shoei and Arai. Although I'm not too unhappy with my Shark. A bit noisier than my old Shoei.

Mad

 

[dravnx]

I've heard that you can adjust the Styrofoam lining by pressing it with a spoon to remove hot spots. I personally wouldn't do it though.

 

[CDONA]

Talk to a ski boot fitter on how to fix "hot spots"

 

[S21FOLGORE]

Re-post
About head shape

++++++++++++++++

Anatomy Lesson

Head shape classification

Anatomical terms for the three types of the head shapes (that we know as, Long oval, intermediate, and round)

Dolichocephalic (long head : what we call “long oval” head)

Brachycephalic (short head : what we call “ round head”)

Mesocephalic (intermediate)

The head shapes are classified by

Cephalic Index = x/y × 100
(CI = (bipareital diameter or BPD, side to side measurement) / (occipitofrontal diameter or OFD, front to back measurement) ) × 100

FIg.18
Click on the picture to see larger image

Hot spot 18, on Flickr

CI < 75 (female) 75.9 (male) is Dolichocephalic
CI 75 to 83 (female) , 76 to 81 (male) is Mesocephalic
CI > 83 (female), 81.1 (male) is Brachycephalic

Note : There’s a difference between male and female skull. That's why the numbers are different for male and female.

What matters for helmet fitment are




Smooth, more vertical frontal bone (forehead) on female skull

Male skull has more angled (tilted back) forehead

Rounded chin (female skull) vs Square chin (Male skull)

The more blocky and massive cranial mass on male skull vs rounder and tapering at the top female skull

Male skull have a deeper cranial structure

(I should probably explain the difference between caucasoid vs mongoloid skull shape difference, but let me keep on explaining about round head hot spot problem (pain on temple area) for now.)

(There’s also CRANIAL INDEX, which is essentially the same thing except for the fact that it uses the measurement taken from the skull.
For the people who deal with live human’s head (such as helmet manufacturers), Cephalic Index (which takes flesh and skin in account) is the one that matters.
For the people who deal with the skull (such as forensic artist), Cranial Index (which takes shrinkage of the dried bone in account) is the one to use.)

Now, this Cephalic Index would have been really useful if the helmet manufacturers had used this, to indicate the internal shape of their helmets.


Helmet for the round head

For example, Arai Quantum-X, supposed to be the most “round head friendly” helmet in U.S. market, would only work on the head with CI around 80 to 85.
I can tell, because my own head’s CI is 89, which is almost extreme end of Brachycephalic head, and Quantum-X is nowhere near as round head friendly as RX-7 -X (which is the JDM version of Corsair -X.)
If your head’s CI is greater than 85, even with Quantum-X (which Arai calls “round oval” helmet), you need to go one size up.

Instead of just saying “round-oval”, if Arai had said “Quantum-X ; round-oval shape, fits Cephalic Index 80 to 85”, it would have been much clearer. (Of course, they need to educate their potential customers, by explaining what Ci is. But, this will greatly reduce the hassle of buying a new helmet.)

AGV AX-8 Evo has egg shaped internal, and runs a little bit on the large side. But they have a lot thicker, plush crown pad in there.
The result is the helmet that works for the wide range of the head shape. (AGV GP-Tech was such a helmet also.)
I would say it (AX-8 Evo) works on the head with CI 75 to 85, even up to 90 so long as your forehead isn’t really wide.
(If you have wide, flat forehead and the CI is around 88 or over, it wouldn’t work.)



But, the hard, cold fact remains.
The true round head helmet is virtually non existent in today’s North American market.
NON of the helmet that are officially sold in US are designed for the head with CI greater than 85.

So, .... is there any option, other than going one size up, for the people who’s head CI more than 85?





Yes, there is.
Well, .... sort of.



... to be continued.