Chain cleaner and lube to use?

[Human Ills]

Congrats, your chain has lasted 3 years. It would have done that sitting in it's box. How many miles have you put on it? Chains will last forever if the orings stay lubricated. That is all you have to do. I have multiple 30k mile chains that were still well within the wear spec that had clean factory grease in them. How's that for the proof is in performance?

Okay. Next set I'm going to use 90 wt.

How do you feel about ATF?

 

[Z3n]

Edit: One of the chain sites recommends the thickest oil you can find that will still flow between the links.

You and I seem to be on the same page regarding o-ring theory But my lowly klr only got 14000 mi on the factory chain. I cleaned it pretty often..well whenever I finished a dirt ride. Not often enough, I suppose.

Dirt riding tears up chains...I figure if you're getting 150% of the warranty period you're probably doing pretty good. (Warranty's only 10k/1 year on chains used offroad).

 

[Human Ills]

Dirt riding tears up chains...I figure if you're getting 150% of the warranty period you're probably doing pretty good. (Warranty's only 10k/1 year on chains used offroad).

You just made my day.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

So why do the chain makers (and oem manus) recommend lubing chains then? I assume it's to keep the outside of the x-ring supple and clean, avoiding damage due to grit/dirt and keeping the outside lubed where the factory lube can't get to it? I do know that when I didn't regularly clean/lube my chain, eventually I'd find broken o-rings and the chain would quickly go south.

If your chain really has O rings then its outdated... try the new X rings...

Oil acts to lower a chains operating temp... lower temps means more
chain life... and if some of that oil finds its way down into the
rollers then you will arrest wear... if not your chain is ready for
replacement after the 3rd adjustment or about 8 to 12K miles depending
on HP...

The rings you think are made of rubber are actually made of a highly
fluorinated fluoroelastomer known commercially as Viton or Kalrez...
very tough stuff... they do not require oil to remain supple... when I
say the X ring has a excellent resistance to most chemicals including
sulfur... sulfur chloride... sulfur dioxide... sulfur hexaflouride to
name a few... that resistance means it does not soak up oil...

You are not required to lube the O rings in your fuel injection
system... your fuel tank... your dip stick and they stay supple
through out the life of the bike because they are very tough stuff...

The X rings can live through the life of a chain without any external lube...

I only recommend lube at the arrows in a effort that some of it will
reach the inside of the roller... I don't recommend lube at the X rings...

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Dirt riding tears up chains...

Dirt and oil make up an effective grit that wears down sprockets and the rollers
on the chain... the X rings halt any possibility of that grit tearing up the critical
pin and roller junction behind the X rings...

 

[Z3n]

If your chain really has O rings then its outdated... try the new X rings...

Oil acts to lower a chains operating temp... lower temps means more
chain life... and if some of that oil finds its way down into the
rollers then you will arrest wear... if not your chain is ready for
replacement after the 3rd adjustment or about 8 to 12K miles depending
on HP...

The rings you think are made of rubber are actually made of a highly
fluorinated fluoroelastomer known commercially as Viton or Kalrez...
very tough stuff... they do not require oil to remain supple... when I
say the X ring has a excellent resistance to most chemicals including
sulfur... sulfur chloride... sulfur dioxide... sulfur hexaflouride to
name a few... that resistance means it does not soak up oil...

You are not required to lube the O rings in your fuel injection
system... your fuel tank... your dip stick and they stay supple
through out the life of the bike because they are very tough stuff...

The X rings can live through the life of a chain without any external lube...

I only recommend lube at the arrows in a effort that some of it will
reach the inside of the roller... I don't recommend lube at the X rings...

My mistake, I was using the terms x and o ring essentially interchangeably...most people wouldn't note the distinction.

My technique for lubing was to run one bead of oil down each run of x-rings, and then wipe away as much excess as possible. Maybe I was getting it right by accident. Either way, I don't have enough accuracy with that damn bottle to get it all on the inside of the rollers, so I'll call it good enough.

Dirt and oil make up an effective grit that wears down sprockets and the rollers
on the chain... the X rings halt any possibility of that grit tearing up the critical
pin and roller junction behind the X rings...

Interesting, never thought about the problems that you'd have with the grit combining with the oil. Makes complete sense though. Thanks for the lessons

 

[enzeine]

Motul chain clean and Motul chain lube

You took the words out of my mouth.

I asked the dealer how they got the chain so clean and they said Motul.

 

[Aluisious]

I still don't understand what the hell a "roller" is if it's just pressed onto a bushing that doesn't move :|

The oil on the chain has to be for something...they wouldn't bother with installing oilers on endurance race bikes if there was no need to oil the chain.

 

[ScottRNelson]

I still don't understand what the hell a "roller" is if it's just pressed onto a bushing that doesn't move

The roller moves. It just takes a little bit of force. I though you could just spin them, but double-checked on my ST2 and discovered that they're fairly firm, but can still be moved with your fingers. Go check it out on your own bike. You might learn something.

 

[Aluisious]

If they move and it takes force, I figure they need lube or they'd wear badly.

My bike happens to be parked 7 miles from my apartment. I'm not going to drive there midweek just to poke a roller to see if it moves.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

I still don't understand what the hell a "roller" is if it's just pressed onto a bushing that doesn't move :|

The oil on the chain has to be for something...they wouldn't bother with installing oilers on endurance race bikes if there was no need to oil the chain.

Some chains have solid rollers that don't pivot when they come into contact
with the sprockets they don't need lube but the trade off is more wear of the
sprocket teeth... most chains sport rollers that are designed to pivot as they
come into contact with the sprockets and they would like some lube...

One thing a engineer should posses is an natural curiosity to any and
all claims... if people make a claim about Auto Oilers then it should
be tested and scrutinized... if you do test like I have done you may
come to the same conclusion that externally applied oil can not reach
behind the X ring and lube the critical pin and roller junction...
externally applied oil can not even lube and X ring held in tension
between the chain plates... so it does beg the question... if
externally applies oil can not reach the critical pin and roller
junction and it can not lube the X ring then why pay good money for a
running oil leak on your bike??? only if it lowers the running temp of the chain...

Bub7 is the fastest motorcycle on the planet Chris Carr set a new FIM world record & AMA national
record at 367.382 mph thru the mile with an exit speed of 372.534 mph at the Cook Private Meet
at the Bonneville Salt Flats Utah... Dennis Manning is friend and he explained to me that during the
record runs he sprays water on his X ring chain in order to lower its operating temp... if you ever
see video you will note a fine mist trailing the BUB's 7 wake... its the water that makes the chain
last the run... he is preserving the thin internal lube at the critical pin and roller junction...

Fastest Motorcycle engine in the world is a 90º V4 with a Big Bang crank...

BUB stands for Big Ugly Bastard... the #7 is his 7th design...

 

[Z3n]

Interesting. Learn something new every day.

 

[Aluisious]

The thing about cooling the chain that I don't get is that there's just no way putting oil on every 500 miles, 100 miles, or 1 mile is going to cool the chain down.

I'm wondering if it's for the other parts of the chain the rollers contact. It can't even be for the roller to sprocket interface, because there's going to be no oil left on the sprockets when they're rotating at 50-150mph.

 

[beginner]

I still don't understand what the hell a "roller" is if it's just pressed onto a bushing that doesn't move :|

The oil on the chain has to be for something...they wouldn't bother with installing oilers on endurance race bikes if there was no need to oil the chain.

In an earlier post I said it looked to me like the rollers were pressed onto the bushings. Even if they are, over time the rollers must expand from stress until they turn freely on the bushings. I inspected my 10,000 mile Oring chain this evening by pushing on individual rollers with a steel wire. Not only did they all turn easily, they all had something less than 1/64" of back and forth play, meaning the ID of the roller is noticably larger than the OD of the bushing. All the rollers I tested were about the same. In the mean time the chain has only stretched about 25% of what's allowed by the spec and the sprockets seem to be wearing normally.

Then I checked the non O-ring chain on another bike with fewer miles. The rollers turned freely but didn't seem to have any extra play on the bushing.

A loose fit between the roller and bushing, as there seems to be on my chain, would absorb a significant amount of oil. Even though it might be counter intuitive, my perception is the oil flinging off the chain keeps it cleaner than it would otherwise be in my dirty riding environment. Another perception I have is that if the grit is lubricated it can't stick to anthing very well and gets pushed out of metal to metal contact areas better.

I could be wrong, those are my perceptions.