Concealed Carry Logic

[tuxumino]

My feeling on the CCW is it clouds people's idea of the last resort. Realizing that YOU will be the one to escalate the situation to a deadly force scenario if you draw a firearm is the point I think most miss. You get tunnel vision on the gun instead of looking for an escape route, getting a good look at the suspect, their car, plate number, etc.

If all you have is your wits to save your life you will use them. Having a gun will only make you feel like the corner market, in the shitty part of town, isn't a bad place to pick up a pack of smokes at 2AM.

True, you should try and stay out of a dangerous situation, but once you have been confronted, I believe you should never retreat from a dangerous assailant, never give him an inch of ground, never show him a moment of fear (no matter how much you may feel it) and sure as hell never give him some of your property if killing, maiming or otherwise resolving the attackers choice to invalidate his life has been made available.

I'm thinking that in a lot of self defense situations the potential victim is surprised by the assailant, if the victim is carrying a firearm, their first thought is to get that weapon into play, when maybe the first thought should be ducking, blocking or evading the attack.
I think if some one is trained to be aware of their situation and to react to various type of attacks quickly that is more valuable then just packing heat.
Of course if you can carry and are trained and aware that would give you one more tool to get out of bad situation, but i don't see the tool as a substitue for training.
Every situation is unique and backing down or retreating may present you as more of a victim, it could also give you more space to avoid the attack or get the attacker to think you aren't going to fight when you really are prepared to defend yourself.

never retreating is a good way to end up in Stalingrad in the middle of winter.

 

[macadamizer]

True, you should try and stay out of a dangerous situation, but once you have been confronted, I believe you should never retreat from a dangerous assailant, never give him an inch of ground, never show him a moment of fear (no matter how much you may feel it) and sure as hell never give him some of your property if killing, maiming or otherwise resolving the attackers choice to invalidate his life has been made available.

Realizing, of course, that you generally DO have a duty to retreat if possible before resorting to use of deadly force in self-defense. The exception is that there is no duty to retreat if you are in your own home -- but outside the home, you do have a duty to retreat, if possible.

tuxumino is right -- this attitude, while certainly understandable, is a quick way to end up in jail if it is used in real life...

 

[bte320]

Ok, this post does not make any gawddamn sense. Must be the worst fucking stupidest fucking post I've seen in quite some time. I forget you are still a college student, you should come back and post when you are done having an orgasm every time you post something like this fucking shit

Somebody needs to put on their chill-out-pants and take a walk down relax lane. And don't hate because I use proper grammar gawddammit

 

[916ZX]

I want a gat cause I have a little pee pee and drive a little car.

jk

Anyone wanna join me at Jackson Arms in South City to punch some paper this week?

 

[Eldritch]

I'm thinking that in a lot of self defense situations the potential victim is surprised by the assailant, if the victim is carrying a firearm, their first thought is to get that weapon into play, when maybe the first thought should be ducking, blocking or evading the attack.
I think if some one is trained to be aware of their situation and to react to various type of attacks quickly that is more valuable then just packing heat.
Of course if you can carry and are trained and aware that would give you one more tool to get out of bad situation, but i don't see the tool as a substitue for training.
Every situation is unique and backing down or retreating may present you as more of a victim, it could also give you more space to avoid the attack or get the attacker to think you aren't going to fight when you really are prepared to defend yourself.

never retreating is a good way to end up in Stalingrad in the middle of winter.

Please don't take my words too literally. I didn't truly mean to charge forward headlong and not ever move back, simply to never let the assailant feel he is in control of the situation. Using positioning to your advantage should always be part of engineering a successful conflict engagement. I agree with you 100% that there is no substitute for training. Honestly, I'd be happier if every adult member of society had to go through a tour in the armed forces similar to what they do in Switzerland.

Realizing, of course, that you generally DO have a duty to retreat if possible before resorting to use of deadly force in self-defense. The exception is that there is no duty to retreat if you are in your own home -- but outside the home, you do have a duty to retreat, if possible.

tuxumino is right -- this attitude, while certainly understandable, is a quick way to end up in jail if it is used in real life...

I thought we were speaking about CCW social theory? I'm not talking about the law, here, I'm talking about what I believe in. The law is pretty clear to me. I know the law and it angers me. The law in the state we live in seems to place some sort of intrinsic value on human life that I just don't empathize with. To me, the only thing as low as a criminal who preys on those weaker than themselves is a willing victim.

 

[macadamizer]

I thought we were speaking about CCW social theory? I'm not talking about the law, here, I'm talking about what I believe in. The law is pretty clear to me. I know the law and it angers me. The law in the state we live in seems to place some sort of intrinsic value on human life that I just don't empathize with. To me, the only thing as low as a criminal who preys on those weaker than themselves is a willing victim.

I think the law is relevant to social theory, because it plays into the calculus -- or at least it should -- of whether it to carry or not.

That said, I don't disagree that we as a society oftentimes place an extremely high value on human life. When someone, though their repeated unlawful activites, has made it clear that they have no intention of playing nice with the rest of society, I am not sure we should their life that highly.

But I value mine highly, and I don't want to go to jail because I killed some scumbag who had it coming in a situation where self-defense may not be crystal clear -- that's why I think the law, and when you can use a gun, is relevant to the discussion.

 

[Idontdotrix]

glad to see t his thread back on topic- I love BARF. you can walk in with a specific mindset and read points of view you wouldn't have thought of yourself- and make more informed decisions.
you guys rock.
thread jack over, please continue.....

 

[nazgulnarsil]

That said, some of the self-defense/concealed-carry arguments, especially on the gun-related boards, oftentimes veer off into extreme paranoia and fantasy land.

I totally see where you're coming from on this and yes the "tacti-cool" crowd is annoying. It has been my experience however that people who bother jumping through the hoops of concealed carry licensing do take it as a serious responsibility. I would be shocked to hear about a case of a civilian with a CCW causing some sort of bad situation, AFAIK it's exceedingly rare. while OTOH the number of times civies with CCW's help out in a bad situation each year is substantial.