Dirt Bike Red Sticker purchase plan & situation ...

[byke]

I mostly ride on private property, but it's not really a solution to this issue. What we are talking about is California trying to dictate to the rest of the world what kind of dirt bikes they can buy. The sticker thing was their 1st attempt to get the manufacturers to make less smokey, quieter, non spark-making dirt bikes. The manufacturers mostly ignored fucking California and kept making awesome dirt bikes.

Now we have these more aggressive restrictions to the Cali market, essentially making modern race dirt bikes unusable in normal ways. Yes, you can ride on private property, but most people don't.

That "some people" don't see a problem with what is happening here is typical of what happens when "some people" don't care because it's not their problem. But what it really shows is short sighted, shallow thinking. It's a "...and then they came for me" situation. If "some people" don't think that their motorcycle isn't next, they are fooling themselves. That they are smug about it has resulted in the reaction we see here. People here have fucking had enough of this shit. I'm with them...CARB, the DMV, and California politicians need a "beat down" politically, and I hope they get it.

Do you know if/how bringing in out of state bikes are affected?

I do like the idea of private parties getting together to purchase big land lots and start trail riding clubs.

There is one aspect I like about the law change, which is kind of the "crybaby" issue with a bunch of guys being mad about not getting stickers for their $12k dirt bikes like they're a part of some real grass roots effort, in contrast to the resourcefulness of other people like Cubans still keeping their 50's cars from the US running. Where there's a will, there's a way, and our will thus far only seems to extend to whining. It would be really cool to see a massive wave of people keeping their hanging-on-by-a-thread classic vintage 2021 flintstone rock wheel machines running for a long time. I assume this is almost completely unaffected with motocross, since at least 95% of the tracks around are privately operated. Maybe this will be a boon to local tracks and the OTHG type clubs out there, bringing back the masses like it was pre-2008. Those were silly good times.

 

[Holeshot]

Hadn't thought about that part Byke. For sure a boon to rebuilds, motor kits, etc.

 

[SM610]

Do you know if/how bringing in out of state bikes are affected?

I do like the idea of private parties getting together to purchase big land lots and start trail riding clubs.

There is one aspect I like about the law change, which is kind of the "crybaby" issue with a bunch of guys being mad about not getting stickers for their $12k dirt bikes like they're a part of some real grass roots effort, in contrast to the resourcefulness of other people like Cubans still keeping their 50's cars from the US running. Where there's a will, there's a way, and our will thus far only seems to extend to whining. It would be really cool to see a massive wave of people keeping their hanging-on-by-a-thread classic vintage 2021 flintstone rock wheel machines running for a long time. I assume this is almost completely unaffected with motocross, since at least 95% of the tracks around are privately operated. Maybe this will be a boon to local tracks and the OTHG type clubs out there, bringing back the masses like it was pre-2008. Those were silly good times.

I'm not sure what would happen if you bought a 2024 race bike in Nevada/Oregon etc. But I'll guess that they will transfer the title as you like, but that just puts you in the same situation as buying it in California, no sticker no ride.

People who come to California to ride from other states have a different situation...

arty

 

[byke]

Ahhhhh hint hint wink wink!

 

[nakedape]

I visited Ocotillo Wells for the first time with a small group last month. It was absolutely bonkers mad Max on steroids. Our group, which included a former Supercross racer, had plated bikes, KTM 300s. I brought my DR 650 and the places we rode we’re almost deserted, because very few people bring plated bikes out there. We ended up in some slot canyons, where we were the only bikes, but there were many jeeps.

I’m struggling to understand how anyone would turn up their nose at the performance of late model, dirt bikes of any type. Much like the street bikes, we run, they vastly outperform rider ability in 90% of cases. Earlier in this thread, someone was going on about racing but it doesn’t seem like there’s a significant barrier to actual sanctioned racing based on emission equipment requirements.

My general impression from the weekend was that the people in their side-by-sides hauled ccin by oversize trucks are not particularly respectful of the environment, and by that I mean noise and proximity to camp while riding, But everyone did a good job cleaning up before leaving. On the flipside, the sense of camaraderie, and a general willingness to help out anybody no matter the situation they got themselves into was very heartening. A guy in a really nice Jeep stopped to help me pick up my bike out of deep sand and I said maybe you should move forward so I don’t kick anything up on your nice truck or God forbid hit it since I’m totally out of control and I have no idea how to ride in sand. He and I quote go ahead and hit my truck. It’s not a pavement princess. Have fun go go go. Another guy saw me lowering tire pressure out in the middle of nowhere and just pulled over to check to see that everything was fine. Despite the challenging riding environment, I would definitely do it again.

 

[usedtobefast]

I am a bit surprised that the major motorcycle companies didn't really push back on this much. Seems they just said OK CA.

And then they did not make any really good green sticker dirt bikes (that only people in CA would buy).

I guess I could go buy a KTM EXC-F street legal bike for about $14,500 OTD and be able to ride a new "dirt bike" in CA. Geez.

 

[mrzuzzo]

I guess you can still ride non stickered bikes on BLM/federal lands right? No sticker needed there.

I am also surprised by no push back from manufacturers. California has got to be their biggest North American market by far.

 

[Dmitriy]

I promise you'll get over the whole red/green sticker shit too. There are plenty of motorcycles out there that are not gross polluters.

Considering no one will not be able to purchase 2 store bikes not matter how clean they get made, my friends and I will be affected in how we can enjoy the sport. Sure you can go ahead and do hard enduro on a Goldwing. Good luck! But come on really I wouldn't expect you to show up to a StonyBARF even if I got you a fun bike [300 2T] to ride [to try changing your opinion]. Sure is easy to dismiss other peoples interests in an online message board right?

Quick Google search before I posted told me a lot of things that you just said are actually the opposite, but yeah, dirt racing is just going to die because of this. Sure. I'll believe that when it actually does happen.

You're right on, though. I'm not anti-CARB and never will be. You must not have grown up in the same California I did. Unless you're a mechanical engineer with decades of experience, you don't know any more than you believe I don't. California is a different environment than the other states. Some are getting there, but the lack of numbers will likely never come close. It's an apples and oranges comparison. And while I do support motorcycling, I care about more people than just myself and that's part of living in a civilized first-world society. You can't always have everything you want just because you think you're entitled to it. Grow up.

You sound half way to riding an electric Harley from Bar to Bar on pocker run in Florida.... Two wheels is 2 wheels so why not I guess.
The rest of us would like to preserve what little is left and perhaps grow this sport for future generations.

Sure the argument can be made that give a little for the civilized first world society. They have done that with 2A as well, which side of that argument are you on Jason? Divide and conquer seems to be working well for special interest groups....

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

Its very easy to pick on marginalized groups in our society these days:

Imaginary CA gov employee conversation
Hey lets ban polluting dirtbikes.
How much TOTAL pollution do they emit?
Who cares they can't defend themselves it will be easy?
What about solving emissions from all those planes at SFO (have you been to the domestic terminal dropoff / pickup, the fucking smell is insane)?
Nah the airline industry has too much money to fight us.
How about the shipping industry can we convert the container ships to nuclear instead of bunker fuel?
Nah they have too much $$ to fight us too.

Maybe you should convince them to put DEF in the planes and ships.....

I guess you can still ride non stickered bikes on BLM/federal lands right? No sticker needed there.

I am also surprised by no push back from manufacturers. California has got to be their biggest North American market by far.

You can not operate a non-registered motor vehicle on BLM (https://www.blm.gov/programs/recreation/OHV). Now they don't specify what type of registration you need and where it needs to be registered

For anyone who thinks Private lands or out of state registrations are a solution, they aren't, just a band-aid. This state can easily pass laws regarding operating any petroleum based engine anywhere anytime. Look at the fireplace burning ban (and thats on your private property). Can't install natural gas stoves in some places. The restriction on generator/chainsaw/small enigne sales. How about smog laws for street bikes.....

Not only are laws being passed on restricting use and sale of future Petrolium Engines they can apply them retroactively (looks at older medium and heavy duty diesels). So just because they haven't restricted it all the way now, doesnt mean they dont have a roadmap to do it in the near future.

Oh and for the cherry on top:
Every emissions law passed in CA or US has 0 shit to do with developing countries/economies around the world like Africa or Asia. All of our OLD and polluting cars get sold there (after the catalytic converter has been removed for $$$ of course) The medium and heavy duty diesels no longer accepted in CA are still polluting in other states or Mexico. When those places get a choice of cheap energy (coal) or clean energy (solar etc....) which one do you think they will choose to lift their country's economic standing?

The air doesn't care for man drawn borders.

EDIT:

Was searching and googling about how in 2025, non compliant bikes from 2022-2024 are allowed to ride in parks again.
Older thread here: https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548594&page=5
So if I have this right, if you buy a 2024 non compliant dirt bike (like a KTM 300 or any 450cc 4 stroke motocross bike) you do not get a sticker of any sort and you can not ride it in CA offroad riding parks in 2024.
BUT, in 2025 that bike will then be allow to get some sort of sticker to be used year round in the CA offroad riding parks, right?
BUT, if you buy a 2025 model, those will never be allowed in any CA parks.
AND any dirt bike 2024 or older will be allowed in the CA offroad riding parks year round? No more summer red sticker bans in some parks? So your 2005 RM250 can be ripping around Metcalf in June 2025? And your 2024 KTM 300 too?
So if all this is true ... then a good plan is to buy 2024 bikes, as many as you can! Your life time supply of 2 strokes and non compliant 4 strokes.
And I assume in 2025 onward, those then "legal" 2024 bikes would be very appealing in the used market.

Sorry to go off on a tangent here. The answer to your question is this. If you want to be able to ride anywhere without headaches (state parks, BLM, etc...) get a 2021 or older red sticker bike which will turn to a green sticker equivalent in 2025 (1 year, I personally recommend a 2018 300 2T KTM for example) or any factory plated 350 / 500 or a green sticker 350 / 500. (until 2025 the 2021 and older red sticker bikes will have riding seasons to deal with).
Anything outside of what I just wrote is a gamble on your part with DMV / CARB.

 

[byke]

No one will not be able to purchase 2t's, meaning, everyone can purchase 2t's?

 

[dtrides]

Well, this is not a news to those paying attention.
The wife and I bought 2 smoke dirt bikes back in 21 because of the ( at the time) upcoming change in the law.
I can't ever seeing I would need anything more than what I have (Husqvarna TE300I). Awesome bike!
I plan on this bike lasting me as long as I can ride it.
The wife currently has a KTM XCW 150, might keep an eye out for a (20-21) 250 for her to move into.
DT

 

[usedtobefast]

So Husqvarna has some 2024 green sticker 4 strokes, a 500 and a 350.

The FE501w is a non street legal but green sticker legal bike for MSRP $12,659

The FE501s is a street legal bike for MSRP $13,049

So for $400 extra dollars you get a street legal bike and all the stuff mirrors, blinkers, brake light, etc. And all the emissions stuff is the same between the two.

But then the yearly registration is much more expensive and yearly insurance price also much higher.

Hummm ... where is that retire and move away thread ...

 

[FourThreeSix]

Treating the current situation as a problem for future me. As of right now, I haven't had any issues. I also don't draw attention to myself, buy the yearly pass for CA parks, and stay on trail. Once the state has their shit together and actually has a program in place to limit my new, terribly running 2-stroke that runs much cleaner than the green stickered '74 Elsinore 250 I have sitting beside it, then I will reevaluate.

 

[banshee01]

So Husqvarna has some 2024 green sticker 4 strokes, a 500 and a 350.

The FE501w is a non street legal but green sticker legal bike for MSRP $12,659

The FE501s is a street legal bike for MSRP $13,049

So for $400 extra dollars you get a street legal bike and all the stuff mirrors, blinkers, brake light, etc. And all the emissions stuff is the same between the two.

But then the yearly registration is much more expensive and yearly insurance price also much higher.

Hummm ... where is that retire and move away thread ...

There are great deals on used bikes right now. Buy a used bike 2021 or slightly older with low hours

 

[vizcarmb]

So these savvy rangers can only enforce laws and not dictate what you can ride just because they know bike models. As long as the bike is registered they can’t do anything about it. If you get a 2024 and still get a sticker, as long as the registration matches the sticker number which is the plate number. You are good to go. Rangers can’t do anything about it.

 

[byke]

I had a green sticker bike that should have been red sticker and the rangers at carnegie copied my registration and sent it to the dmv to have it pulled. Nothing ever came of it, so ineptitude prevailed somewhere in the chain, but I think they can do something...maybe.

 

[SM610]

So these savvy rangers can only enforce laws and not dictate what you can ride just because they know bike models. As long as the bike is registered they can’t do anything about it. If you get a 2024 and still get a sticker, as long as the registration matches the sticker number which is the plate number. You are good to go. Rangers can’t do anything about it.

Also, not so savvy rangers can enforce non existent laws just like the police sometimes do. I go to the local OHV MX track with my Surron. Half the time the young guy is happy to see me. The other half the old guy can't stand that my Surron doesn't have a sticker, and fights with me every time I see him. I make him call someone above him, he loves that... So far he has been forced to let me ride, and fer fucks sake why wouldn't he??? The E dirt bike is what CARB and the park service we're trying to make happen with the red/green sticker thing to begin with. There's no noise, no smoke, and no sparks.

My Surron has no title, no MSO (cert of origin), and no bill of sale. It's like a bicycle legally. Whoever it is we reach on the phone admits that there's no particular rules yet for what I have and they begrudgingly let me have my fun, but people just have no common sense and don't want it. That's the underlying truth behind the anger we've seen in this thread.

 

[byke]

I'd keep making the bicycle argument, but on the side I'd definitely try to get a green sticker and maybe a moped plate for that thing. Maybe Merlin has gone through this already and has some info?

Years ago there was this awful guy at prairie city and I was always good with a current green sticker and spark arrestor, but he wanted to run my VIN one time for some reason and I had my frame painted and the paint made one number on the VIN hard to identify. He was a fair skinned red headed guy and his face was beet red, threatening to chip the paint off my frame. I was more into mx at the time, but I stopped going there.

I think some of those rangers are the type that hate everything OHV and see OHV parks as the opposite of what they do, but somehow they either had to take the job for one reason or another, or maybe that's a punitive position for sucky employees within the parks system, who knows. And, of course some of them are just ridiculously nice and are very happy to sacrifice one small area in order to protect larger and more fragile areas.

 

[jbawden]

Regardless of one's political views or thoughts on the trajectory of the climate, the financial costs of these policies are 100% on our backs. So if you view the climate as "in crisis", you don't mind the additional cost of living in CA, and naturally the other side views it as a tax and loss of liberty at the hands of a super majority. I think this is more at the core of the frustration in this thread.

My understanding of the red sticker program is that is was supposed to be a transitional period where the OEM's would voluntarily start producing competition bikes that met the targeted emission standards of green sticker bikes. Human nature being what it is, no one did that and CARB decided to force their hand. Most of us recall the malaise era of automobiles in the 70-80's, but look at the ICE market now, incredible performance is available. So what I don't hear in these discussions is disruptive technologies that will get us amazingly capable machines. Cost and complexity (and maybe the biggest back woods fear, reliability) will be impacted so again it can be frustrating and that is a perfectly appropriate reaction.

 

[N4teTheGreat]

Did someone mention needing a few acres of private land to solve this issue? Looks like the "collapsing" pot market is freeing up some interesting properties, including this 240 acre spot.

 

[SM610]

Did someone mention needing a few acres of private land to solve this issue? Looks like the "collapsing" pot market is freeing up some interesting properties, including this 240 acre spot.

There was a thread about such a thing somewhere around here, I see properties that would do well in that way all the time. Grow areas falsely inflated mostly northern/Mendo land that was hours north, we wouldn't have to go that far away from the bay area. I think the way to do it would be to get land that is carried by the owner (like that one) which was more common 2 or 3 yrs ago. It's coming back, now that the market has come off it's frenzy a bit. Anyone that actually serious about it can contact me as I look all the time for other reasons.


BARFLAND ftw!