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Expensive helmet vs. cheap one
- Thread starter Smilygo
- Start date
pannayar
e^ipi+1=0
Precisely the topic I was looking for - what the public opinion / facts / myths are on whether a $500 Arai really offers more protection than a $100 Snell (M2010) certified HJC.
Currently I have a new HJC-CL16 and a old Z1R. Though both fit me well, the Z1R is a little more comfy, a little less noisy and I wish I could make that my primary... But I think it is DOT only and is dated 2001! I believe there is a 5 year recommendation to change the lids...
Does DOT mean nothing?
Currently I have a new HJC-CL16 and a old Z1R. Though both fit me well, the Z1R is a little more comfy, a little less noisy and I wish I could make that my primary... But I think it is DOT only and is dated 2001! I believe there is a 5 year recommendation to change the lids...
Does DOT mean nothing?
I've owned half a dozen helmets over the last 7 years, and you DO get what you pay for.
I've owned $50-$500 helmets
Bell
HJC
Shark
Shoei
Scorpion
BILT (recently for the girl)
ilikefood
Active member
DOT doesn't mean much as a standard, and Snell does, mostly because Snell does its own tests on helmets. I mean, half helmets have DOT stickers. That doesn't mean, however, that all helmets that have only a DOT sticker (and not Snell) are crap.
A 12-year-old helmet IS crap, though, and won't protect your head very well. Cut off the straps, deface the helmet in some way (cut it in half if you can), so nobody re-uses it, and throw it out.
In terms of JUST protection, a more expensive helmet is unlikely to be better than a cheap one, especially if both helmets are Snell certified. But you do get what you pay for in terms of other features - comfort, noise level, air flow, various "bells and whistles", etc., etc. There is a lot more to a motorcycle helmet than just crash protection.
LongGoneJohn
Gone
I've owned half a dozen helmets over the last 7 years, and you DO get what you pay for.
I've owned $50-$500 helmets
Bell
HJC
Shark
Shoei
Scorpion
BILT (recently for the girl)
Good job bringing back the zombie thread.
And double good job for using your sarcasm meter.
MCSFTGUY
Seriously Disturbed Calm
My buddy who does a lot of research in motorcycle crashes and human factors asked me to post this.
The ongoing best helmet arguement is always interesting. Yes there are differences in the various standards but they are not great and if the helmet meets the standard then you will get that level of protection. One thing said about Snell is true, they do shelf test helmets where the for the DOT starndard the manufacturer certifies to DOT that their helmet meets the standard, DOT does only minimal spot checking. And yes, there have been situations where popular and big name helmets were checked by DOT and found not to comply with the standard.... how do you recall a helmet that has no tracking of sales?????
But it turns out the latest research on helmet protection shows that we are really way behind the times. Right now, today, the safest helmet out there is the 6D off road helmet that is DOT certified. (Google search 6D helmets and then go to their website to find out about this helmet.) What the latest research is showing that it is not the tangent velocity that is causing injuries... this is the velocity associated with the dropping testing of helmets.... it is the rotational velocity. Basically, when you fall of the motorcycle while moving forward and the helmet hits the ground with that forward velocity, it causes a very sharp and severe rotational force to the head and brain. This rotational forces is far more likely to cause injury than the simple drop testing that helmets go through. A major paper was released in Great Britian earlier this year addressing rotational forces in crashes and calling for better testing of helmets. The 6D helmets are designed to mitigate this rotational force.... curiously enough the issure of rotational forces was first noticed with downhill skiers and POC helmets was the first one to come out with a design to handle rotational forces for skiers.
It also turns out that the bicycle community is discovering this rotational force issue and is also starting to call for better testing and research on bike helmets.
The International Motorcycle Safety Conference is in two weeks in Orlando, FL. The remaining authors of the Hurt report, Harry Hurt's son and a gentleman by the name of Dr. Terry Smith will be doing segments on the protective aspects of helmets and gear. If there is anything really new and/or different from this I will let you know and you can post it on the BARF.
And as you know, I wear a Shoei modular.... this is one of the few helmets that actually fits my head and is comfortable. But, the chin portion of full face helmets is not part of the testing standards set by FMVSS 218. So we really have no idea how a contact to this portion of the helmet will effect overall motion to the helmet... and the head inside the helmet. But I can say this, a contact to the chin bar has the potential to cause some very significant rotational forces to the head and neck structure..... I will take my chances......
So there is some more info for BARFers to consider.... and I also wear a full face helmet if it matters.
The ongoing best helmet arguement is always interesting. Yes there are differences in the various standards but they are not great and if the helmet meets the standard then you will get that level of protection. One thing said about Snell is true, they do shelf test helmets where the for the DOT starndard the manufacturer certifies to DOT that their helmet meets the standard, DOT does only minimal spot checking. And yes, there have been situations where popular and big name helmets were checked by DOT and found not to comply with the standard.... how do you recall a helmet that has no tracking of sales?????
But it turns out the latest research on helmet protection shows that we are really way behind the times. Right now, today, the safest helmet out there is the 6D off road helmet that is DOT certified. (Google search 6D helmets and then go to their website to find out about this helmet.) What the latest research is showing that it is not the tangent velocity that is causing injuries... this is the velocity associated with the dropping testing of helmets.... it is the rotational velocity. Basically, when you fall of the motorcycle while moving forward and the helmet hits the ground with that forward velocity, it causes a very sharp and severe rotational force to the head and brain. This rotational forces is far more likely to cause injury than the simple drop testing that helmets go through. A major paper was released in Great Britian earlier this year addressing rotational forces in crashes and calling for better testing of helmets. The 6D helmets are designed to mitigate this rotational force.... curiously enough the issure of rotational forces was first noticed with downhill skiers and POC helmets was the first one to come out with a design to handle rotational forces for skiers.
It also turns out that the bicycle community is discovering this rotational force issue and is also starting to call for better testing and research on bike helmets.
The International Motorcycle Safety Conference is in two weeks in Orlando, FL. The remaining authors of the Hurt report, Harry Hurt's son and a gentleman by the name of Dr. Terry Smith will be doing segments on the protective aspects of helmets and gear. If there is anything really new and/or different from this I will let you know and you can post it on the BARF.
And as you know, I wear a Shoei modular.... this is one of the few helmets that actually fits my head and is comfortable. But, the chin portion of full face helmets is not part of the testing standards set by FMVSS 218. So we really have no idea how a contact to this portion of the helmet will effect overall motion to the helmet... and the head inside the helmet. But I can say this, a contact to the chin bar has the potential to cause some very significant rotational forces to the head and neck structure..... I will take my chances......
So there is some more info for BARFers to consider.... and I also wear a full face helmet if it matters.
Last edited:
ilikefood
Active member
^^^^
That's some good info, thanks!
That's some good info, thanks!
In the area of "protection" as DOT and Snell define and test it in their labs. I think it's already been proven countless times that an inexpensive helmet can often be as good if not sometimes better than helmets costing several times more. Keep in mind that I'm talking about lab testing and what Snell and DOT consider measures of safety.
What you get when you get a spendy helmet is (in no particular order):
Graphics choices; lots and lots of cool designs and race replica models
Accessory choices; visors, breath masks, etc
Materials; Carbon fiber and other lightweight materials and construction that don't compromise safety
Features; More vents in often better places, easily removable/washable linings and pads. replaceable and custom fit linings and pads, visor locks, cut outs for helmet speakers, etc
Design; More attention and effort probably went into making the helmet aerodynamic and quiet and solid (particularly if it is a design originally and specifically intended for racing at speed)
And of course you get the personal gratification of wearing the Porsche, Mercedes, or Ferrari of helmets and all the attendant street cred that garners.
Eliminating the potential for protection as a variable assuming that the inexpensive helmets will do at least as good a job in protection. Personally, the two greatest benefits for me of buying a name brand "expensive" helmet is weight and comfort.
Weight, in that in almost all cases, inexpensive helmets for me have proven heavier than expensive ones, and comfort not because cheaper helmets aren't made for human heads, but because it's much easier to go to the Shoei website or the Arai website and get thinner or thicker linings and pads (and a slew of any other goodies) for an absolutely custom fit.
Too many people will buy a helmet that fits their "face" and ignore or not be aware that the most critical measure of helmet fit is the "crown" of your head, where a crown would sit if you were to wear one
If the crown is too small, there is an air gap at the top of your head to where it should contact the inside liner at the top of the helmet interior. This would allow your head to accelerate into the top of the helmet in an impact instead of the crush layer instantly being able to apply all of its benefit at the moment of impact. If the crown is too large, there is a single contact patch at the very top of your head where impact forces would concentrate, and "space" around the crown where your head can move around.
Both are equally bad. The helmet and lining should contact evenly and snugly over the largest contact surface possible around the crown of your head.
To properly fit a helmet, remove the cheek pads and linings and put the helmet on and gauge the crown fit, THEN put the cheekpads back in, if too tight, buy thinner one's and opposite if too loose. Back to the comparison of "expensive" vs "cheap" Your odds that the cheekpads are non removable is much higher in a "cheap" helmet, therefore the odds are greater that the less expensive choice won't have the potential to be properly fitted to your head (this is NOT to say that it's impossible to find an inexpensive helmet that isn't a perfect fit, it just has the odds of being much harder to potentially correct if not)
A helmet is a liability if wearing it is uncomfortable because it becomes a distraction, or a danger if it is too loose and allows your head to knock about inside...
What you get when you get a spendy helmet is (in no particular order):
Graphics choices; lots and lots of cool designs and race replica models
Accessory choices; visors, breath masks, etc
Materials; Carbon fiber and other lightweight materials and construction that don't compromise safety
Features; More vents in often better places, easily removable/washable linings and pads. replaceable and custom fit linings and pads, visor locks, cut outs for helmet speakers, etc
Design; More attention and effort probably went into making the helmet aerodynamic and quiet and solid (particularly if it is a design originally and specifically intended for racing at speed)
And of course you get the personal gratification of wearing the Porsche, Mercedes, or Ferrari of helmets and all the attendant street cred that garners.
Eliminating the potential for protection as a variable assuming that the inexpensive helmets will do at least as good a job in protection. Personally, the two greatest benefits for me of buying a name brand "expensive" helmet is weight and comfort.
Weight, in that in almost all cases, inexpensive helmets for me have proven heavier than expensive ones, and comfort not because cheaper helmets aren't made for human heads, but because it's much easier to go to the Shoei website or the Arai website and get thinner or thicker linings and pads (and a slew of any other goodies) for an absolutely custom fit.
Too many people will buy a helmet that fits their "face" and ignore or not be aware that the most critical measure of helmet fit is the "crown" of your head, where a crown would sit if you were to wear one
If the crown is too small, there is an air gap at the top of your head to where it should contact the inside liner at the top of the helmet interior. This would allow your head to accelerate into the top of the helmet in an impact instead of the crush layer instantly being able to apply all of its benefit at the moment of impact. If the crown is too large, there is a single contact patch at the very top of your head where impact forces would concentrate, and "space" around the crown where your head can move around.Both are equally bad. The helmet and lining should contact evenly and snugly over the largest contact surface possible around the crown of your head.
To properly fit a helmet, remove the cheek pads and linings and put the helmet on and gauge the crown fit, THEN put the cheekpads back in, if too tight, buy thinner one's and opposite if too loose. Back to the comparison of "expensive" vs "cheap" Your odds that the cheekpads are non removable is much higher in a "cheap" helmet, therefore the odds are greater that the less expensive choice won't have the potential to be properly fitted to your head (this is NOT to say that it's impossible to find an inexpensive helmet that isn't a perfect fit, it just has the odds of being much harder to potentially correct if not)
A helmet is a liability if wearing it is uncomfortable because it becomes a distraction, or a danger if it is too loose and allows your head to knock about inside...
Last edited:
corndog67
Pissant Squid
So, every crash was exactly the same, and it was the expensive helmets fault, right?
"More than my share of crashes" is the phrase that kind of got my attention. Does he race? Is he a stuntman? If neither, than maybe the choice of helmet is far down on the list of items to address first?
Maddevill
KNGKAW
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2005
- Location
- Hayward
- Moto(s)
- ZX14,GS750E, KTM 450/540
- Name
- Steve
- BARF perks
- AMA #: 542337
Usually the more expensive helmets tend to:
be lighter
have a more plush interior
have a more robust chin strap
have a better shield and locking mechanism
are quieter
less wind intrusion
better vent systems
I have a Shoei RF100 that is so light and quiet. I bought a Scorpion and it had horrible wind blowing up into my face until I installed the chin block, which was not included. Now it's ok but heavy. Arai is always good but always pricey.
be lighter
have a more plush interior
have a more robust chin strap
have a better shield and locking mechanism
are quieter
less wind intrusion
better vent systems
I have a Shoei RF100 that is so light and quiet. I bought a Scorpion and it had horrible wind blowing up into my face until I installed the chin block, which was not included. Now it's ok but heavy. Arai is always good but always pricey.
redbull
Member
+1
No matter what the sport, gear should not be something that I think about during my activities. Anything that distracts me from staying focussed on getting the most out what I am doing, get reevaluated and improved each time a new one is needed (funds allowing).
No matter what the sport, gear should not be something that I think about during my activities. Anything that distracts me from staying focussed on getting the most out what I am doing, get reevaluated and improved each time a new one is needed (funds allowing).
thedub
Octane Socks
I stopped reading this thread at this post.
Brown81
Well-known member
But thankfully you didn't stop posting. :|
This is actually my never-fail signal to CONTINUE reading a thread. Who wants to read a thread that is so devoid of any possibility of contribution that it by nature, just ends?
Thread to stop reading:
Poster: I believe in THIS...
Reply: We all totally agree without question!
Poster: ok, thanks
Thread to continue reading:
Poster: I believe in THIS...
Reply: Here we go again!
.
.
.
Reply: I don't like it when the syrup from my pancakes touches my bacon
Result: Learned something new and valuable or just plain was entertained despite 1000 other reposts on the same subject...
kingmoochr
WHARRGARBL
$600 Nexx Carbon
Feels like I'm wearing a hat.
Can't see any other reason to spend more money, esp on some bullshit like paint or decals. It's outrageous they charge $100+ more for painted helmets.
Feels like I'm wearing a hat.
Can't see any other reason to spend more money, esp on some bullshit like paint or decals. It's outrageous they charge $100+ more for painted helmets.
kingmoochr
WHARRGARBL
Most of 'em I'd only choose if they charged much less. Hard for me to believe people actually like those things. A few look good, but I'd still choose a solid over most of those.
Not sure if it's been mentioned but a key difference between expensive and cheap helmets is number of shell sizes. Cheap helmets tend to have fewer shell sizes and you're more likely to end up with a huge shell on your head with more stuff inside it to make the interior fit you. Not an issue if you're in the largest helmet size for a given shell size. But you may be able to get a smaller, lighter helmet in a more expensive brand or model.