For Immediate Release -Lightning Unveiling LS-218

[louemc]

Tesla can't keep up with demand for their vehicles. Seems that market is doing just fine.

the real issue at hand is when will this technology be affordable for everybody else. not today, but not too far off anymore i think.

Tesla cars and street motorcycles are two different things.

There is a butt load of super rich people that like to show their richness, with their cars..
And they are people that wouldn't ride a motorcycle.

 

[sckego]

While I generally agree, Tesla is a bit different. Paying $40k for a motorcycle that is most likely a weekend pleasure vehicle/garage queen is much different from paying $80k for your daily driver + weekend pleasure + luxury sedan. The $80k is much more justifiable in my opinion. And it is just that, an opinion.

Alas, there is plenty of people who will pay the $40k I believe.. and that have the money to do so.

I agree with your first points--the market for an $80k premium sport sedan is much larger than that of a $40k superbike.

However... why is it an 'alas' that there exists a sufficient market for a $40k superbike? Those well-heeled customers who are willing to plunk down cash for these early models are the ones who allow a company to survive and develop their technology, to produce cheaper and better models in the future for the larger market.

 

[MikeL]

I agree with your first points--the market for an $80k premium sport sedan is much larger than that of a $40k superbike.

However... why is it an 'alas' that there exists a sufficient market for a $40k superbike? Those well-heeled customers who are willing to plunk down cash for these early models are the ones who allow a company to survive and develop their technology, to produce cheaper and better models in the future for the larger market.

Fixed

 

[cleverusername]

Tesla cars and street motorcycles are two different things.

There is a butt load of super rich people that like to show their richness, with their cars..
And they are people that wouldn't ride a motorcycle.

I agree with your first points--the market for an $80k premium sport sedan is much larger than that of a $40k superbike.

However... why is it an 'alas' that there exists a sufficient market for a $40k superbike? Those well-heeled customers who are willing to plunk down cash for these early models are the ones who allow a company to survive and develop their technology, to produce cheaper and better models in the future for the larger market.

Fixed

this is exactly what happened with tesla. the demand for the roadster exceeded production capacity. aspirational in nature, and only for the wealthy. smart business move on tesla's part, because there is no question that the initial product from the first new american car startup (that still exists) would be unavoidably, unquestionably, very expensive.

tesla scaled up, now we have the model s. still aspirational, but accessible enough to absorb the big pay around silicon valley. in a useful format - 4 door sedan. brilliant - socilaize the idea of an electric car not only being clean, but actually being awesome. nothing is more desireable in that range at the moment, imo. even porsche is changing the panamera to try to better compete.

after the model x, tesla will have a car that competes with the 3 series in price. again, given the demographics in the bay area, i have no idea how tesla could ever stop the production line in fremont.

and guess what - electric motorcycles are following the same progression path. thank God there are enough rich people to buy these early offerings so these innovators can have enough ramen to eat until they get to a more mature place in their business, and produce a more affordable product.

 

[Archimedes]

tesla scaled up, now we have the model s. still aspirational, but accessible enough to absorb the big pay around silicon valley. in a useful format - 4 door sedan. brilliant - socilaize the idea of an electric car not only being clean, but actually being awesome. nothing is more desireable in that range at the moment, imo. even porsche is changing the panamera to try to better compete.

You know, this really is the big myth being sold by the press these days. I just shopped for a new high end car and, just for grins, I researched the Tesla extensively, read all the reviews, rode in my neighbor's S, etc. And I came away convinced that this car is massively overrated performance wise, unless you focus on the fuel savings. It's not any faster than comparably priced vehicles, doesn't have a better ride quality, and, most importantly, it doesn't handle better (a Panamera will leave a Tesla in the dust the minute the road gets twisty). It's not all that roomy either. Finally, while it is a generally handsome car in an Aston Martin copy kinda way, it really is pretty bland looking the more time you spend looking at it.

I get the Model S as a ground breaking electric car, and probably the first ever good looking electric car ever made, but I do think the performance aspect has been oversold. There's a lot more to performance than a 0-60 time, which, while very quick, is still no better than the competition in that price range.

Look at it this way, if the Tesla offered the exact same performance in the exact same package, but it had an ICE in it, would it be selling well against the competition?

 

[MikeL]

You know, this really is the big myth being sold by the press these days. I just shopped for a new high end car and, just for grins, I researched the Tesla extensively, read all the reviews, rode in my neighbor's S, etc. And I came away convinced that this car is massively overrated performance wise, unless you focus on the fuel savings. It's not any faster than comparably priced vehicles, doesn't have a better ride quality, and, most importantly, it doesn't handle better (a Panamera will leave a Tesla in the dust the minute the road gets twisty). It's not all that roomy either. Finally, while it is a generally handsome car in an Aston Martin copy kinda way, it really is pretty bland looking the more time you spend looking at it.

I get the Model S as a ground breaking electric car, and probably the first ever good looking electric car ever made, but I do think the performance aspect has been oversold. There's a lot more to performance than a 0-60 time, which, while very quick, is still no better than the competition in that price range.

Look at it this way, if the Tesla offered the exact same performance in the exact same package, but it had an ICE in it, would it be selling well against the competition?

I've driven the top of the line Model S and I felt it was exactly opposite. Great handling, extremely quick, it went when I wanted it to.. and fast. It was the P85 though, and not all Tesla's are P85s. I mean I hit the "gas" pedal and it put everyones heads on the head rests.

 

[cleverusername]

You know, this really is the big myth being sold by the press these days. I just shopped for a new high end car and, just for grins, I researched the Tesla extensively, read all the reviews, rode in my neighbor's S, etc. And I came away convinced that this car is massively overrated performance wise, unless you focus on the fuel savings. It's not any faster than comparably priced vehicles, doesn't have a better ride quality, and, most importantly, it doesn't handle better (a Panamera will leave a Tesla in the dust the minute the road gets twisty). It's not all that roomy either. Finally, while it is a generally handsome car in an Aston Martin copy kinda way, it really is pretty bland looking the more time you spend looking at it.

I get the Model S as a ground breaking electric car, and probably the first ever good looking electric car ever made, but I do think the performance aspect has been oversold. There's a lot more to performance than a 0-60 time, which, while very quick, is still no better than the competition in that price range.

Look at it this way, if the Tesla offered the exact same performance in the exact same package, but it had an ICE in it, would it be selling well against the competition?

it wouldn't be a tesla with ICE. i don't see though how things like a 49/51 f/r balance, or being able to confidently slide that car around within two cloverleafs constitute anything other than awesome handling for a 4k+ lb car, but to each their own.

but maybe i should let you tell me - did you get a chance to slide the panamera around?

 

[CABilly]

You know, this really is the big myth being sold by the press these days. I just shopped for a new high end car and, just for grins, I researched the Tesla extensively, read all the reviews, rode in my neighbor's S, etc. And I came away convinced that this car is massively overrated performance wise, unless you focus on the fuel savings. It's not any faster than comparably priced vehicles, doesn't have a better ride quality, and, most importantly, it doesn't handle better (a Panamera will leave a Tesla in the dust the minute the road gets twisty). It's not all that roomy either. Finally, while it is a generally handsome car in an Aston Martin copy kinda way, it really is pretty bland looking the more time you spend looking at it.

I get the Model S as a ground breaking electric car, and probably the first ever good looking electric car ever made, but I do think the performance aspect has been oversold. There's a lot more to performance than a 0-60 time, which, while very quick, is still no better than the competition in that price range.

Look at it this way, if the Tesla offered the exact same performance in the exact same package, but it had an ICE in it, would it be selling well against the competition?

If it's just as good, not buying gas for it is a big plus. I get that people in the market for an $80k+ car don't care about gas prices, but I'd still be sold on the novelty/extra 15 minutes/week.

 

[Archimedes]

it wouldn't be a tesla with ICE. i don't see though how things like a 49/51 f/r balance, or being able to confidently slide that car around within two cloverleafs constitute anything other than awesome handling for a 4k+ lb car, but to each their own.

but maybe i should let you tell me - did you get a chance to slide the panamera around?

My point is that the 'desirability' of the Tesla is largely simply because it is an electric car, not due to its actual performance. So, for the segment of the market that could care less about the nature of the powertrain (which is fairly large), its not any more desirable, but in fact is less desirable because it costs more.

 

[Archimedes]

If it's just as good, not buying gas for it is a big plus. I get that people in the market for an $80k+ car don't care about gas prices, but I'd still be sold on the novelty/extra 15 minutes/week.

Yes. And I agree the word novelty kept coming to mind when I was researching the Tesla.

 

[cleverusername]

My point is that the 'desirability' of the Tesla is largely simply because it is an electric car, not due to its actual performance. So, for the segment of the market that could care less about the nature of the powertrain (which is fairly large), its not any more desirable, but in fact is less desirable because it costs more.

for real / normal people, i agree. i suspect that this demographic of people buy it precisely because it is unique. and if not for the unique part, then simply because it is more expensive. rich people problems, i believe they call it.

hey, rich people get to be as crazy as they want to be and call it eccentric.

 

[Archimedes]

for real / normal people, i agree. i suspect that this demographic of people buy it precisely because it is unique. and if not for the unique part, then simply because it is more expensive. rich people problems, i believe they call it.

hey, rich people get to be as crazy as they want to be and call it eccentric.

I totally agree and I get why the Model S is selling so well. And I do think it is a great car. I just think the performance is oversold a bit, particularly the handling on the road. I could care less about the type of powertrain. I care about looks and performance, and the Tesla doesn't rank anywhere near the top for me in that price range.

 

[FreeRyde]

Get rid of all the gold shiny bits. Make it more of a standard seating position. Drop the price down to 13k.

I'd finance none.

 

[MCCRASH]

10 years ago this moto would have been a pipe dream.
5 years ago the technology didn't yet exist at this level.
3 years ago you would not have dreamed of trying to sell it as a production bike.
All this for $38K? Yes, too much for me, but people will buy it -- and progress continues.

 

[kelsodeez]

....or they could just do what tesla did and put out a car that is sold in ultra low volumes, then pander to the government for subsidies and helper money to further the business of battery powered vehicles. i mean, someone's gotta get rich off of all that lithium mined in afghanistan right?

 

[MikeL]

....or they could just do what tesla did and put out a car that is sold in ultra low volumes, then pander to the government for subsidies and helper money to further the business of battery powered vehicles. i mean, someone's gotta get rich off of all that lithium mined in afghanistan right?

A: Nobody is really mining lithium in Afghanistan yet, and China is one of the few that is dumping money into developing mining operations there.

B: Lithium is not a scarce resource at all, they are finding more and more supplies around the world. Why go to Afghanistan when some of the richest reserves to date are in stable regions that are already exporting?

I did a lot of research on Afghanistan and its potential resource output in college, it has potential but a lot of issues just are not even close to being resolved. IE: War, Security, Transportation etc. Luckily they do have potential for large mining output that could help that country a lot. But then walks in the Resource Curse theory.

 

[Marcoose]

Boy, a neafty bike company puts out a game-changer awesome bike, and the bike community is eager to torpedo it to the darkest depths.

I think it's a great deal. Our grand kids will be riding whatever comes of age then. I'm so jealous of them.

 

[louemc]

Boy, a neafty bike company puts out a game-changer awesome bike, and the bike community is eager to torpedo it to the darkest depths.

I think it's a great deal. Our grand kids will be riding whatever comes of age then. I'm so jealous of them.

I'm willing to gamble a wad of hobo $$$$$, that you won't buy one.

Saying something is a great deal, costs nothing.

 

[cleverusername]

I'm willing to gamble a wad of hobo $$$$$, that you won't buy one.

Saying something is a great deal, costs nothing.

don't give up so fast, gramps. even people like us might be able to afford this before it's the roaring 20s.

my hobo dollar says that this performance will be at the price of a premium liter superbike (i'm thinking RC8) 5 years from now. one of the reasons being increased production capacity of energy storage / batteries.

however, i do not see ICE performance exceeding this bike within 5 years.

 

[Marcoose]

Saying something is a great deal, costs nothing.

So is saying it isn't.