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Gingrich is a symbol of propriety

kevin 714 said:
this


obama is going to win again lol the GOP has no one
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I think you are right, but I don't find the lol in it. The man has taken the damage that Bush caused this country and grown it exponentially. Instead of exercising financial discipline we got hugely increased spending. Instead of the "open" government he promised, we got secrecy and bills rushed through on the last minute. He reliably does the opposite of everything our country needs to be fiscally sound and get us back on track. Other than pushing through the health care debacle, what else has he done that Bush wouldn't have. Oh that's right, Bush had the Prescription Med debacle. I really don't see a difference. The man is simply not qualified to do the job. Yet we will have four more years of him, very much to the detriment of our country.
 
that is how I felt 6 years ago. a least we don't have any new wars.

(Libya is debatable but at least we have a few more people in the boat with us and we aren't footing the bill for a full scale land invasion)
 
wazzuFreddo said:
laughable man. when republicans have a social policy other than "fuck you because you're different," I'll give them a second look
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No you won't. Just be honest with us Fred.
 
If the repubs were more socially liberal, I'd vote for them in a second. But the moral legislation and posturing driven bybtheir religious side is what keeps me away.
 
Political party means shit, I just want someone that will actually bring about change, not just chant it
 
the party may not, but certain candidates are. It's the same for the Democrats. Not all follow the bad of the party line.
 
if a socially liberal fiscal conservative was on the patform, i'd vote for him. but that person wont get that far in the GOP ranks...
 
Holeshot said:
the party may not, but certain candidates are. It's the same for the Democrats. Not all follow the bad of the party line.
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I have to disagree berto. one of the hallmarks of the GOP, and a reason why they are able to get so much done when they are in power, and why they work together so much better than the dems do, is precicely BECAUSE they fall in line when they need to. its actually their strength in many cases
 
Kevin, you and Yuri must be missing the dissension in the GOP, which starts with the votes.
 
wazzuFreddo said:
It doesn't really matter now does it because I doubt the Republican party will ever be fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
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I just pointed to one as my candidate. Ron Paul comes pretty close as does Rand Paul and several others.

Can you point me to ONE fiscal conservative in the Democratic party? One even fiscally responsible one? Someone who truly wants to cut the size of government in a dramatic fashion, and not just slow the growth. Someone who wants to promote economic growth, not just crony capitalism and corporate welfare. I had hopes that Gerry Brown would be that person for our state, looks like I was mistaken.
 
Ron and Rand Paul are nowhere near socially liberal.

The last president to balance the budget was a democrat btw
 
At the insistance of a Republican congress. Remember how they threatened to shut everything down? Gridlock and all that?
 
Obviously there's something that we all don't know about how the government runs. Is it a conspiracy? I'm not certain. What is certain is that nearly every elected official that steps into office has an awfully hard time coming through with most if not any of their campaign promises/slogans. Why? It stands to reason (from my P.O.V. anyway) that when they do get into office and are finally briefed about the shit that 99.5% of us don't know about our government and what it's involved in, their campaign promises/slogans now become extremely difficult or impossible to follow through on since it will likely severely disrupt the status quo. I sincerely doubt any of us wants to trend backwards just to move forward again, anyway. Not only that, letting the states manage themselves is a novel idea with the Libertarian crowds, but it's not going to work since not every state puts in as much as they take from the central U.S. government. States like Idaho and Montana would be hosed. What tax revenues do they really have? You think mining is going to last forever? Shit, even tourism can't hold out in those areas for that long and in the winter it pretty much dries up. The smaller, less economically viable states would fold in no time without government subsistence. Now, if that's what you want then fine. However I really doubt Libertarians want to see most of the states of this country wither away to nothing just so they can see the majority state they live in prosper to no end, right? :|
 
Kornholio said:
Obviously there's something that we all don't know about how the government runs. Is it a conspiracy? I'm not certain. What is certain is that nearly every elected official that steps into office has an awfully hard time coming through with most if not any of their campaign promises/slogans. Why? It stands to reason (from my P.O.V. anyway) that when they do get into office and are finally briefed about the shit that 99.5% of us don't know about our government and what it's involved in, their campaign promises/slogans now become extremely difficult or impossible to follow through on since it will likely severely disrupt the status quo.
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This is well said. For the most part, I don't think politicians lie about their intentions while running for office. I do think they don't know what they don't know and make promises they cannot keep once they are confronted with reality. When you observe the rate at which Presidents age once elected, you've got to think they've encountered some realities they had not previously imagined.

It's not that a politician is above lying, of course. More than at any time before, "perception management" is a lucrative industry and the public is especially susceptible to falling for outright lies. Lies typically are about other people though, and if the candidate wins an election, these other people and their voices fade into the background. They only need you to believe the lie long enough for the issue to be largely forgotten. That's harder to make that happen with campaign promises. The best they can hope for is that there are enough extenuating circumstances that they can successfully make the case that their intentions were good. Either that, or that we'll forget. While that's possible, it's risky if they seek reelection.

From a practical viewpoint, the time to suspect a candidate might knowingly make false campaign promises is when he's running for his last term. In this case, he already knows the job. He's also now in a situation where he doesn't need you to believe the lie forever or even to forget that he told it; he just needs you to buy it long enough to vote for him.
 
Holeshot said:
Kevin, you and Yuri must be missing the dissension in the GOP, which starts with the votes.
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Unfortunately that dissent seems to dissipate when candidates realize what it takes to get elected. Look what happened to Bush Sr. and John McCain.

The relgious right is a kingpin in the GOP, and do a good job to ruin any chances of a socially liberal or even socially agnostic agenda.
 
Ratters said:
At the insistance of a Republican congress. Remember how they threatened to shut everything down? Gridlock and all that?
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They did shut it down. And it was a disaster. A lesson one would hope Republicans of today learn from. It was Clinton's budget, compromising with Republicans (with at least some bipartisan support from Democrats in Congress). Gosh, the right and the left working together. Who believes that is possible today?
 
Kornholio said:
Obviously there's something that we all don't know about how the government runs. Is it a conspiracy? I'm not certain. What is certain is that nearly every elected official that steps into office has an awfully hard time coming through with most if not any of their campaign promises/slogans. |
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I think they become quite cynical by their second term. A freshly minted congressman realizes pretty fast that he must play ball within the power structure or get an office in the closet and no help with the next campaign. I think the powers-that-be have a pretty good idea of how to obfuscate and get reelected. They also know how to use the law and their other functions to change the lives of Americans.

I also believe when they pass some new giveaway bill, they are well aware that a tax hike down the road is inevitable. They're just counting on enough addicts to block a takeback.
 
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