Gravel Laydown on 9

[UMZenki]

So last night was my first time really laying the bike down and I'm pretty sure i've got the whole situation sorted out well enough that i can explain it and learn something...

To set the situation up, I had been really preoccupied with some personal issues since this past weekend and decided to take a night ride. I actually told my friend that I was going to go for a ride by myself to clear my head a little...

This was my first ride after attending Novice School at THill last week so it took a little time to adjust to all of the distractions and inconveniences that the street offers that the racetrack does not. This may have been a significant reason behind laying the bike down. I took a nice relaxed pace up 9 to skyline and had dinner at alice's. On the way back down, my mind was still on other things. I was not riding with excessive speed or in a wreckless manner. It was the lack of focus, however, that proved to be just as dangerous. I was also in full gear (1pc, boots, gloves, etc).

I was riding back down rt 9 towards the los Gatos area around one of the sharper left turns where the double yellow bends back out of the visibility range of my highbeams. Due to my lack of focus, i found myself fixating on the road at the end of my headlights rather than up and to the left at newly appearing double yellow lines. By the time i realized i was in trouble i attempted to straighten the bike and emergency brake into the gravel runoff only to have the front end tuck as soon as the front wheel passed onto unsteady pavement.

I'm pretty sure all the damage is cosmetic as I was able to pick the bike up and ride it home without any issues. I'll take it apart this weekend and hope not to find anything more serious though.

The damage:
-Minimally rashed leathers and a small tear at the left hip.
-Left glove split open at one of the seams.
-Rashed left side plastics (upper, mid, and small scratches on the crankcase)
-Delayed my next trackday

Lessons learned:
-Make a clear head be a requirement to get on your bike not a result of getting off of it.
-Allow yourself time to re-adjust to the distractions of the street after a trackday. Riding in a very difficult situation (night-time twisties) after having been spoiled by the perfect riding conditions of a track takes some time to get used to.
- Don't ride alone, especially at night, especially without a cell phone. If the accident had been worse i wouldve been stranded and possibly injured in the middle of nowhere.


Also, if anybody has any leads on an '05 600rr left mid fairing i would be very appreciative Do you think i would need to repair a small tear that went all the way through the leather? If so, where would be a good place to have the suit looked at?

Did i cover everything?

 

[ucb]

Really sorry to hear about your get off Darren, at least you weren't injured and your gear did its job

Sounds like you got it down pretty well as to WHY you went off the road, but once you were off was it a steep cliff or mountain? I lost the front end as well in gravel at 15mph or so, so like they said at the track, if possible in the gravel try to ride it out (off the brakes). Not sure if you had that luxury

But I hear you about the whole track to street transition. I didnt ride all last week and finally rode this past weekend, and yeah I too was highly distracted by all the obstacles around the road, I was really lolly gagging it as I was pretty nervous, even on relatively easy roads

If you need any help nursing the bike back to health let me know, I gotta garage, tools, stands, etc so just let me know

As for the mid fairing, Ill keep an eye out on ebay and 600rr.net

 

[fqzaxon]

I had my front end tuck going down HWY9 as well... I was pulling over, and the gravel or loose dirt/rocks on the side of hwy9 are not friendly at all.. I'm glad you're alright though.

 

[UMZenki]

Sounds like you got it down pretty well as to WHY you went off the road, but once you were off was it a steep cliff or mountain? I lost the front end as well in gravel at 15mph or so, so like they said at the track, if possible in the gravel try to ride it out (off the brakes). Not sure if you had that luxury

Well, where i ran off there was a large gravel mound (maybe 2 ft high) that ran about 8 feet off of the side of the road where the bike finally slid to a stop. I think the damage may have been worse if i had gone over the mound at speed into the side of the mountain thought about rear brake but i dont think it wouldve stopped me before the 'ramp'.

 

[ucb]

hmm yeah that might not have ended well

 

[Enchanter]

Hmm. A couple of things:
- I didn't see anything mentioning over-riding the headlight (speed too fast for conditions).
- Would a better head turn have any effect?
- Running off the road, loosing traction, and then crashing, is not 'a front end tuck', it is 'crashing' due to poor cornering skill.

KEEP YOUR POSTS ON TOPIC. Some of you guys understand the rules here in this forum and continually violate them. It's time to start paying attention. You just might loose your ability to post here and / or get a suspension.

 

[UMZenki]

Hmm. A couple of things:
- I didn't see anything mentioning over-riding the headlight (speed too fast for conditions).
- Would a better head turn have any effect?
- Running off the road, loosing traction, and then crashing, is not 'a front end tuck', it is 'crashing' due to poor cornering skill.

I was not speeding, but it was a lack of visibility and lack of concentration which could have been compensated for by correcting head turn/focus or reducing speed. sorry for mis-labeling how i tipped the bike over.

 

[weasel]

Bike down on 9 today south of 35.

Had to be air lifted out

Heard it on the news around 11:45

 

[RhythmRider]

You said, "...by the time I realized I was in trouble..." You mean you were going wide?

 

[UMZenki]

You said, "...by the time I realized I was in trouble..." You mean you were going wide?

It gets a little fuzzy. I had time to straighten and brake before hitting gravel, but i'm not sure when the decision was made to straighten up. I definitely had TONS more lean angle in the direction of the turn, but i really believe the corner 'snuck up on me' somewhat due to my lack of focus. I'm pretty upset about it because i don't feel like I am that bad of a rider. I thought i did pretty well on my first trackday.

Is it ok to attribute an accident like this to a mental mistake that led to a physical mistake? I know for a fact i've run that turn much faster in similar conditions before.

 

[RhythmRider]

Absolutely. It is entirely a mental mistake. Usually a corner or hazard sneaks up on a rider because the rider's attention is momentarily fixated elsewhere. Once you realized what was going on, you made a decision based on your experience that you could not complete the turn. I think you took away the correct lessons from this crash.

 

[bellisan]

It gets a little fuzzy. I had time to straighten and brake before hitting gravel, but i'm not sure when the decision was made to straighten up. I definitely had TONS more lean angle in the direction of the turn, but i really believe the corner 'snuck up on me' somewhat due to my lack of focus. I'm pretty upset about it because i don't feel like I am that bad of a rider. I thought i did pretty well on my first trackday.

Is it ok to attribute an accident like this to a mental mistake that led to a physical mistake? I know for a fact i've run that turn much faster in similar conditions before.

I'm not that bad a rider either. I consider myself acceptable (35 yrs riding, middle B group track rider) and one of the hardest things to date has been to realize how much more performance (specifically turning) there is left in the bike. Intellectually I know it, bodily it's different.

The point: If conditions and pace are as you describe there was probably more than enough grip and clearance available to make the turn. So we know the first mistake was not looking through properly. But the second was to not tighten the turn and continue to roll on the throttle. How to correctly handle the road excursion would be moot if this second mistake did not take place.

Cheers

Lou

 

[haroldo]

KEEP YOUR POSTS ON TOPIC. Some of you guys understand the rules here in this forum and continually violate them. It's time to start paying attention. You just might loose your ability to post here and / or get a suspension.

Come on dude. What's with the power trip? Short man complex? Up until your warning, all posts have been related to his crash and damage control. Uhhh,
I think you want people to notice that you are an All Mighty Moderator, with powers to suspend! Wow! I'm so scared to get suspended! What are you, in high school or something? Ok, go ahead and kick me out now...

 

[Enchanter]

Come on dude. What's with the power trip? Short man complex? Up until your warning, all posts have been related to his crash and damage control. Uhhh,
I think you want people to notice that you are an All Mighty Moderator, with powers to suspend! Wow! I'm so scared to get suspended! What are you, in high school or something? Ok, go ahead and kick me out now...

Re-read posts #2, #3, #4, and #5. I don't see any Crash Analysis.

You are new here, less than 35 posts so far, and you feel the need resort to name calling. You have no idea of who I am, yet you feel the need to go on the attack. Are you trying to get others to notice you? Or is it that you need the reaffirmation as a means of making yourself feel better. Seems like you have the issue here.

 

[haroldo]

Re-read posts #2, #3, #4, and #5. I don't see any Crash Analysis.

You are new here, less than 35 posts so far, and you feel the need resort to name calling. You have no idea of who I am, yet you feel the need to go on the attack. Are you trying to get others to notice you? Or is it that you need the reaffirmation as a means of making yourself feel better. Seems like you have the issue here.

Man, the posts you refer to (#2, #3, #4, and #5) are talking about his crash, or similar situations from other riders, along with some simpathy. What "analysis" do you need? Do you want a team of Nasa scientits to gather up and "analyse" the physics of the situation?

Your scolding was completely unecessary and uncalled for. But if it made you feel better about yourself, at least something good came out of it!

People that post here obviously just came out of a shitty situation. The last thing anyone here needs is to feel like they're walking on egg shells everytime they post...God forbid the post is not "analitical" enough for you!

 

[MrCrash]

Man, the posts you refer to (#2, #3, #4, and #5) are talking about his crash, or similar situations from other riders, along with some simpathy. What "analysis" do you need? Do you want a team of Nasa scientits to gather up and "analyse" the physics of the situation?

Your scolding was completely unecessary and uncalled for. But if it made you feel better about yourself, at least something good came out of it!

People that post here obviously just came out of a shitty situation. The last thing anyone here needs is to feel like they're walking on egg shells everytime they post...God forbid the post is not "analitical" enough for you!

This sub forum was created to help people learn from their mistakes. We don't have NASA scientists on hand, but we do have a lot of skilled, experienced riders with years of instructional experience and thorough understandings of riding mechanics.

In the past, crash-related threads have shown tendencies to get derailed, or evolve into flame-fests. The rules are more strict here to prevent that from happening.

Enchanter, Holeshot, and Baptistro go over the rules in this thread, which is a sticky:

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214948

 

[B-Cuz]

UMZenki sounds like you're a changed man after this incident, I'm really glad to hear that it wasn't much worse.

How were the road conditions anyhow in regards to the crash?

 

[UMZenki]

UMZenki sounds like you're a changed man after this incident, I'm really glad to hear that it wasn't much worse.

How were the road conditions anyhow in regards to the crash?

Not really a changed man. I just didnt think I was that much of a n00b. It just goes to show that no matter how much you think you are progressing with your riding skill, there is always a situation that can prove you wrong.

Road conditions were fine, but like i said, i was riding a bit upset which i would now highly discourage. I am very lucky. All damage was superficial and I have already gotten replacements for the noticable stuff for well under $100.

Now i'm just amped to get back on the track this weekend.

 

[tzrider]

Lessons learned:
-Make a clear head be a requirement to get on your bike not a result of getting off of it.
-Allow yourself time to re-adjust to the distractions of the street after a trackday. Riding in a very difficult situation (night-time twisties) after having been spoiled by the perfect riding conditions of a track takes some time to get used to.
- Don't ride alone, especially at night, especially without a cell phone. If the accident had been worse i wouldve been stranded and possibly injured in the middle of nowhere.

Sorry this happened. I'm quoting the above to have you take another look at the usefulness of each point. They may ultimately be what you take away from the experience, but I wonder if they're practical lessons and whether you're giving some things up that you don't need to. This has turned into a longer post than I thought it might, so I've bolded the things that are the main points I am hoping you'll consider.

First, let's make a distinction. I realize that distraction can lead to mistakes, but distraction itself doesn't make you crash, the mistakes do. It's not a petty distinction, because you can't always help being distracted, but knowing what your specific errors were can tell you something about new habits you could develop to avoid making similar errors. Let's talk about the immediate mistakes you may have made that lead to your crash.

First, two questions: How much time do you need to accurately assess your speed? Beginning when you realized you were on top of the turn, how much time did you have?

From your story, it sounds like your mind was elsewhere at a time when knowing your location and speed as you approached the turn was crucial. Suddenly finding yourself at the entrance to a turn doesn't give you much time to assess your speed, determine your location and locate a target in the turn to point your bike at. Those are the basic bits of information you need to negotiate the corner. If you didn't have enough time to do the above, it could lead to some or all of the following errors:

• Not being sure of your speed leaves you unsure how much lean angle you are going to need and whether there will be enough traction available. Uncertainty about these things makes it unlikely that you will turn the bike decisively to the right lean angle.
  
  
• Not being certain of your location in the turn will leave you unsure as to when to turn. The odds of you turning in a place that facilitates a good line through the turn aren't good.
  
  
• Not having a target to turn the bike towards will eave you unsure how much to turn the bike. Even if you had the information in the other two points above, not knowing how much you need to turn the bike to get on a workable line can still lead to running wide.

I have no way of knowing which of the above directly applied to your situation, but can you identify which, if any, of these things was true in your case?

Not having a clear head is a fact of life for all of us at one time or another. There may well be times where, if you have a reasonable choice, it would be better not to ride. But other times you're already away from home, with your bike as your means of transportation and you get some upsetting news. Examples: You ride to work and during the day, they announce a reorganization that is going to impact you. You're on a weekend ride and you find a message on your cell at lunch letting you know a close relative is in the hospital. Sooner or later, something will get your attention while you're out riding. What would you do about that?

Let's assume you have to ride when you're distracted. How can you make your riding distraction-proof? Can you compartmentalize your thinking enough to pay attention to your riding and leave other worries behind? When you're riding, are there times where paying close attention matters more? Are there times when you have spare attention and can safely ride while thinking of other things?

Finally, a couple of thoughts on some of the other conclusions you expressed in your quote above.

You mentioned, "allowing yourself time to re-adjust to the distractions of the street after a trackday." This isn't a bad thought really, but I would ask, how do you know when you've achieved that? How do you achieve that? And did this really have anything to do with your crash? You've said that you have taken this turn at higher speeds in the past. How does re-adjusting to the street relate, then? Not trying to bust you here; I'm trying to help you see what will and will not matter in the future.

Finally, not riding alone and at night sounds like a bummer to me. It's something I love to do and it doesn't have to be unreasonably dangerous. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Seesm]

Have to say I feel the last post of Haroldo is how I feel in this area of Barf... I woudl sometimes like to add stuff but I steer clear as if people are not doing it "just like you like" and they get jumped all over... Silly how it is sometimes... just my opinion...