Guy shot in SF 24 times???

[LikeWaah]

All those cops were on site, because he had stabbed the shit out of someone with the knife he was holding like 2 blocks away. They had the crazy knife guy cornered, because all of those officers had responded to a code 3 call about a knife wielding manic who had attempted murder someone that was bleeding out around the corner on a public street and he was still at large. Said maniac was shot because he was closing distance with an Officer who had blocked his path while he was trying to escape with the knife still in his hand after getting blasted with bean bags a couple of times to try and disarm him.

Letting this guy go walk around the neighborhood more in order to, "Calm Down," would have been a serious risk to public safety and a completely inappropriate action to the defense of the citizens nearby. Once you have already tried to murder one person and are still armed, you either comply with Law Enforcement or get blasted. How the fuck is this even a conversation?

This cat who was walking towards an officer with a knife STILL in his hand had been out of the joint for only 4 months. He was a convicted member of the Oakdale Mob crew, with a lovely sheet of assault, robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, and similar BS. The amazing thing is that a guy his age (26) was somehow even on the streets at ALL with the arrest record he has. It isn't even about mental health in this case, this is about our corrections system revolving door putting dangerous crooks back on the street to hurt people.

Cool, thank you for the legitimate answer.

That helps put things into context. I hadn't realized he had actually attacked someone.

Its all about perception. 6 bullets in him and dead no problem, 24 just doesn't look good, looks excessive. Other than that no one cares about the douchebag, would barely have made the news.

Right, that's my position.

 

[channelcat]

no offense, but that's a little bit like saying a motogp racer is scared shitless when their bike goes into a rear wheel slide.

motogp racers have slid their rear tires many times.

with all the range practice in the world, I doubt many cops are practiced at shooting to kill a person.

 

[sanjuro]

BTW, I like all the suggestions that the police disarm this man with a knife, keeping in mind they did shoot nonlethal beanbags which did not stop him.

Here are some vids about real life knife defense.

Skip to 5:00. These are two MMA fighters who would have been stabbed multiple times.

[youtube]-TgALACvkRM[/youtube]

I like this one too:

[youtube]Tkvfn96oJnM[/youtube]

There are no clean knife disarms. You get cut but a trained expert will survive.

What people mistake is what you or I would do when dealing with a cop. I was pulled over on my bike, and before I could dismount, the CHP officer removed the folding knife in my back pocket. I waited patiently as another officer wrote me a ticket, and he even complimented me on my Kershaw. But he wouldn't hand it back to me. I had to open my pillion and he dropped it in.

If I had opened my knife, the cops would have drawn on me instantly. If I had approached them with my knife, they would not have tried to disarm me.

But at no time would I have taken my knife out. I was getting a speeding ticket, not a trip to jail.

But that is not the case here.

 

[Zerox]

What's the difference again?

You're dead but trending.

You're dead but not trending.

 

[littlebeast]

motogp racers have slid their rear tires many times.

with all the range practice in the world, I doubt many cops are practiced at shooting to kill a person.

didn't say it without anticipating the response. cops live with firearms - training, practice, and on the job. second nature. made the comparison as what would be felt at the time of the event - which is a conditioned repsonse to a set of circumstances. similar to a fireman rushing into a burning building. risk idetified, risk taken, and risk managed. and yeah - shit can go sideways, just like the rear can grab and result in a spectacular highside, but it's not because they are 'scared shitless'.

 

[bojangle]

motogp racers have slid their rear tires many times.

with all the range practice in the world, I doubt many cops are practiced at shooting to kill a person.

Well, you did initially write "pull their gun out", not " shoot to kill" someone. There is a difference. Most cops have broken leather and drawn down on people numerous times. Most have also not been in a shooting.

Cops also generally gain a lot of experience working through high stress situations and adrenaline dumps. Actually getting shot might be that scared shitless situation, but then you just gotta focus on survival, keep going, and never give up.

 

[channelcat]

You do understand it wasn't one officer shooting him 25 times, right?

I understand that. What I'm asking is why the other officers continued to shoot a downed suspect. Every bullet has to be accounted for, so there was no rational reason for it..it had to be an emotional reaction. What was it..joy?

When your fellow officers calmly killed someone in the line of duty, was it in an urban situation surrounded by hostile and possibly armed locals, where overwhelming firepower sends a message,or more like blowing away some lowlife trying to rob a liqour store in a good part of town, where all they had to worry about was getting too many pats on the back?
Thats what I meant by concerned shitless.

 

[954Rider]

Probably because they weren't shooting .45ACP? 1 bullet from a .45ACP will drop anyone. 9mm or 40cal, maybe not so much. I remember an incident years back where a cop shot someone coming at him with a knife and he had to unload 2 mags of 40cal into his ass before he finally stopped charging.

 

[channelcat]

meh. .357 hollow points.

disclaimer: never seen someone shot. seen dead people. still do!

 

[Eldritch]

Cool, thank you for the legitimate answer.

That helps put things into context. I hadn't realized he had actually attacked someone.

In fairness, he hasn't been charged with that assault yet, but that is what the cops were all doing there. He may have been innocent of the stabbing and just a crazy criminal with a kitchen knife in the wrong place at the wrong time while the real knife maniac got away, but you understand the context of the situation.

 

[Eldritch]

I understand that. What I'm asking is why the other officers continued to shoot a downed suspect. Every bullet has to be accounted for, so there was no rational reason for it..it had to be an emotional reaction. What was it..joy?

When your fellow officers calmly killed someone in the line of duty, was it in an urban situation surrounded by hostile and possibly armed locals, where overwhelming firepower sends a message,or more like blowing away some lowlife trying to rob a liqour store in a good part of town, where all they had to worry about was getting too many pats on the back?
Thats what I meant by concerned shitless.

Bro, there were like 8 cops drawing down on him. 24 rounds in the cat means each officer fired 3 times. Blip, blip, blip is how fast that happens. Does that makes sense to you?

This is not like some shit where he was on the ground and one guy reloaded and dumped a second mag into him. In the Amadou Diallo shooting by NYPD, 4 officers fired 41 times and hit him 19 times under much more difficult lighting and angles of fire over longer distance. The fact that this guy only got hit 24 times with that many officers drawing down on him is actually a show of restraint once the brass started dropping.

 

[bojangle]

In fairness, he hasn't been charged with that assault yet, but that is what the cops were all doing there. He may have been innocent of the stabbing and just a crazy criminal with a kitchen knife in the wrong place at the wrong time while the real knife maniac got away, but you understand the context of the situation.

Yeah, be ain't gonna be charged posthumously.

 

[channelcat]

he only had a knife, but nevermind. someone else nearby might have had a gun...

I lived in Richmond for a minute. cats would pop off rounds just to say hello and goodbye on the way to the 7-11. Shot four rounds out of my 7.65 Mauser, one July 4th, everything got quiet, then it was hooo-paa!

My point is that a level of police firepower, excused case by case, is establishing precedent of an operational standard that will eventually be brought to SCOTUS, I don't guess by whom, that will say local jurisdictions are incapable of containing the rising level violence in general, and martial law should be a federally funded target program.

 

[Shaggy]

he only had a knife, but nevermind. someone else nearby might have had a gun...

I lived in Richmond for a minute. cats would pop off rounds just to say hello and goodbye on the way to the 7-11. Shot four rounds out of my 7.65 Mauser, one July 4th, everything got quiet, then it was hooo-paa!

My point is that a level of police firepower, excused case by case, is establishing precedent of an operational standard that will eventually be brought to SCOTUS, I don't guess by whom, that will say local jurisdictions are incapable of containing the rising level violence in general, and martial law should be a federally funded target program.

good fuckin' blow!

You've been hanging out with redruM, Elmer, and Human Ills too much.

LE has come a long way in the past few decades with regard to establishing what is and is not reasonable use of force.

 

[Shaggy]

Probably because they weren't shooting .45ACP? 1 bullet from a .45ACP will drop anyone. 9mm or 40cal, maybe not so much. I remember an incident years back where a cop shot someone coming at him with a knife and he had to unload 2 mags of 40cal into his ass before he finally stopped charging.

One bullet from pretty much any handgun won't do shit unless it directly strikes the heart or the medulla oblongata causing instant death. Even a direct shot to the heart will take a few seconds to kill someone. A well placed headshot (T-zone/medulla oblongata) shuts the brain off and it's lights out.

Like the saying goes.... "What does someone do when they are shot with a handgun? Whatever they were doing before they were shot with a handgun"

 

[Reli]

This will come across rather dickish, but I'm not sure why that many cops needed to train their weapons on a suspect like him, at such close range. Maybe 4 would have been enough. The rest could have done something else.

Is it actually written in the rules that every single cop on the scene needs to do exactly what all the others are doing? Or is it just a peer pressure thing?

 

[panthera]

It is clear many of you in this thread have no clue what officers go through. After 14 pages I would think the direction of this tread would be different but here we are still discussing shooting the knife or roping him somehow and why all the officers drew down on the suspect. If you had a gun on you and a guy was threatening you and your friends are you gonna keep it holstered because one of your buddies has his gun out? Do you know how fast a person can close a 10 to 15 foot gap and stab the shit out of you? Unbelievable. All of you saying these ridiculous thing probably have never even been in a street fight much less face an individual that just stabbed someone and is now advancing on you and others trying to protect the public.

 

[Shaggy]

This will come across rather dickish, but I'm not sure why that many cops needed to train their weapons on a suspect like him, at such close range. Maybe 4 would have been enough. The rest could have done something else.

Is it actually written in the rules that every single cop on the scene needs to do exactly what all the others are doing? Or is it just a peer pressure thing?

C: None of the above

If you're confronting an armed subject that had just used that same weapon to inflict severe injury on another person, would you just trust that the guys standing next to you will be able to adequately defend you? Or would you want to also be able to defend yourself?

I know if he charges at me, I want to be able to defend myself and not have to rely on someone else's recognition time, reaction time, and accuracy to prevent me from being the next victim.

 

[asdfghwy]

Why do people keep complaining about people saying "shoot the knife out of his hand" when I haven't seen one post at all indicating anyone suggesting such a ridiculous idea? (unless I missed it)

Seems like a straw-man

 

[Marcoose]

This will come across rather dickish, but I'm not sure why that many cops needed to train their weapons on a suspect like him, at such close range. Maybe 4 would have been enough. The rest could have done something else.

Is it actually written in the rules that every single cop on the scene needs to do exactly what all the others are doing? Or is it just a peer pressure thing?

Page 47 of the manual. It says while one policeman trains his weapon, the other 13 ought to exchange donut recipes and effective racial slurs. When the first policeman is empty, it's the most senior policewoman's turn. Chivalry is always important.

Hey, here's one awesome idea. Maybe the police should carry Bat-nets. Back in the 60s series, it always worked great.

Honestly, I can't picture a different outcome for this incident. Perhaps if 4 policemen had answered the call, maybe the perp would've died of 12 gun shots. Still the same outcome.