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Guy shot in SF 24 times???

Reli said:
You wrote "suspects" as being the last in priority, not "suspect with a deadly weapon". That is why I asked for clarification. :dunno
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Fair enough.

Like Bo explained... The priority of life list is typically discussed during hostage rescue or active shooter situations. It can be applied to other situations where deadly force is an option.
 
}Dragon{ said:
So if I may armchair QB here for a second, and yeah,
I know I would have shot the knife out of his hand™

But why aren't water cannons or fire hoses used anymore? This seemed to work out for all involved in this incident: https://youtu.be/V-go90t3hHk
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Firefighters can't be bothered with stuff like that. The chili might burn if left unattended..

:twofinger
 
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BTW, I saw a couple of vids where foreign police forces are able to stop a man with a knife without shooting him.

I was thinking about the differences. For one thing, these men were threats primarily to themselves. Mario Woods had attacked someone else.

The police had time to create a cordon as well as other riot gear, like shields. This was an active crime scene, where Woods was trying to escape.

I thought about how SWAT has less-than-lethal tactics, if they have time. That's the difference.
 
sanjuro said:
BTW, I saw a couple of vids where foreign police forces are able to stop a man with a knife without shooting him.

I was thinking about the differences. For one thing, these men were threats primarily to themselves. Mario Woods had attacked someone else.

The police had time to create a cordon as well as other riot gear, like shields. This was an active crime scene, where Woods was trying to escape.

I thought about how SWAT has less-than-lethal tactics, if they have time. That's the difference.
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The SFPD officers did use less lethal options. They were ineffective and when the suspect attempted flight (or chose to attack) by running towards an officer while still armed, then lethal force was applied.
 
sanjuro said:
BTW, I saw a couple of vids where foreign police forces are able to stop a man with a knife without shooting him.

I was thinking about the differences. For one thing, these men were threats primarily to themselves. Mario Woods had attacked someone else.
.
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"The" Met arrest a terrorist, who has a knife, who had stabbed people, without shooting him

http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/UK-police-say-stabbing-treated-as-terrorist-6678344.php

So, it turns out, all the SFPD needed was a "stun gun"..
 
I'd be laughing at some of the responses if I didn't just watch two different videos on youtube of officers being stabbed to death by knife wielding assailants. They had their weapons drawn too...it was creepy.

[youtube]jCrulYp4uWw[/youtube]

[youtube]JdxmigWRFOk[/youtube]

It's pretty clear that a fair amount of you should educate on up on how a knife fight takes place and the 21 foot rules. Knives are much more dangerous than guns in close quarters. Alex/ Nick/ Dave are spot on here. Pull a knife on LEO's with a threatening demeanor, you're going to get shot if you don't comply. Fair enough deal too. I want our LEO's to make it back home each time and the crazies to be unsuccessful in their quests.
 
Holeshot said:
I'd be laughing at some of the responses if I didn't just watch two different videos on youtube of officers being stabbed to death by knife wielding assailants. They had their weapons drawn too...it was creepy.

[youtube]jCrulYp4uWw[/youtube]

[youtube]JdxmigWRFOk[/youtube]

It's pretty clear that a fair amount of you should educate on up on how a knife fight takes place and the 21 foot rules. Knives are much more dangerous than guns in close quarters. Alex/ Nick/ Dave are spot on here. Pull a knife on LEO's with a threatening demeanor, you're going to get shot if you don't comply. Fair enough deal too. I want our LEO's to make it back home each time and the crazies to be unsuccessful in their quests.
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You are making sense. Get out of here before you get banned.
 
Justified. One more POS off our streets and out of the community. Good riddance. He should have been hanged but firing squad worked well enough.
 
Holeshot said:
I'd be laughing at some of the responses if I didn't just watch two different videos on youtube of officers being stabbed to death by knife wielding assailants. They had their weapons drawn too...it was creepy.

[youtube]jCrulYp4uWw[/youtube]

[youtube]JdxmigWRFOk[/youtube]

It's pretty clear that a fair amount of you should educate on up on how a knife fight takes place and the 21 foot rules. Knives are much more dangerous than guns in close quarters. Alex/ Nick/ Dave are spot on here. Pull a knife on LEO's with a threatening demeanor, you're going to get shot if you don't comply. Fair enough deal too. I want our LEO's to make it back home each time and the crazies to be unsuccessful in their quests.
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This is the kind of crap that is used to put fear into cops (seen these kinds of edge weapon vids in POST and thinking holy Jesus knifes are as dangerous as guns) while completely omitting the context of a real life scenario.

In the real world there are things called radios and multi level non lethl responses to edge weapon armed assailants by a department. Edge weapons cannot easily be deployed at a range beyond 21 with accuracy AND, common sense is to back off and call for backup.

Problem is, police departments would rather let knife assailants be justified shootings than become creative in deploying non-lethal methods like they do in other countries.

If they can make a Redman suit that allows me to safely be beat senseless with an ASP baton, they can make a take down suit for mentally ill episodes with knives, jus sayin.
 
If you walk toward somebody with a knife, and that lerson is holding a gun, I expect the person who brought a knife to a gun fight to get shot. I wouldn't do anything different, and I don't expect the cops to do anything different.

Non-lethal methods are for when a suspect has a knife and is not coming at you, or somebody else that he can hurt.
 
JakesKTM said:
If they can make a Redman suit that allows me to safely be beat senseless with an ASP baton, they can make a take down suit for mentally ill episodes with knives, jus sayin.
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"Just a second Mr. Crazy Man with a knife...Let me change into my Redman suit before we get started.."
 
I expect when you become a police officer, you accept the necessity of putting your life at risk from time to time and put yourself in harms way from time to time and do not use that as an excuse to kill someone when you or your fellow officers can assemble a substantial non-lethal force against one person.
 
I doubt any cop there ever felt his life was in danger. It wouldn't have been the end of the world if they had to backup a few steps and reaccess as the guy slowly walked towards them.
But the guy was a douche so 90% of the outcome falls on him.
 
JakesKTM said:
If they can make a Redman suit that allows me to safely be beat senseless with an ASP baton, they can make a take down suit for mentally ill episodes with knives, jus sayin.
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Yet again you fail to understand the basic concept of priority of life.

Even the Redman suit isn't completely fool proof. Most agencies I know of use a foam baton in conjunction with the Redman or FIST suit because people still sustain major injuries as the suit doesn't offer 100% protection. A suit that offers complete protection from edged weapons would be impossible to move in.

Also, have you ever tried bringing the fight to someone while wearing the Redman/FIST suit? It doesn't really offer freedom of movement. Good luck catching anyone. And since you're now at a mobility disadvantage, the suspect could easily attack from a position of advantage and target the weak spots of the suit or take the suited person to the ground and begin removing it completely.

Were you a patrol cop or some State investigator or probation officer or something? The way you play these scenarios out in your head makes me wonder how much patrol experience you've got.
 
Blankpage said:
I doubt any cop there ever felt his life was in danger. It wouldn't have been the end of the world if they had to backup a few steps and reaccess as the guy slowly walked towards them.
But the guy was a douche so 90% of the outcome falls on him.
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thank you. It's a justified shooting because he was a dirtbag.:thumbdown
 
Nick said:
Yet again you fail to understand the basic concept of priority of life.

Even the Redman suit isn't completely fool proof. Most agencies I know of use a foam baton in conjunction with the Redman or FIST suit because people still sustain major injuries as the suit doesn't offer 100% protection. A suit that offers complete protection from edged weapons would be impossible to move in.

Also, have you ever tried bringing the fight to someone while wearing the Redman/FIST suit? It doesn't really offer freedom of movement. Good luck catching anyone. And since you're now at a mobility disadvantage, the suspect could easily attack from a position of advantage and target the weak spots of the suit or take the suited person to the ground and begin removing it completely.

Were you a patrol cop or some State investigator or probation officer or something? The way you play these scenarios out in your head makes me wonder how much patrol experience you've got.
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The only thing I understand is how polarized you and most officers become as a result of your occupation, which frankly does you no service whatsoever.

So you think patrol is the justification here? :laughing PD, SO, DOJ, Parole, Probation, CHP, etc. etc... it's all LEO with the same POST training for the most part when it comes to firearms and use of force. The difference is jurisdiction and department policy. Do you think less of anyone not on patrol?
 
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Nick said:
A suit that offers complete protection from edged weapons would be impossible to move in.
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Ummm no

Modern material technologies like turtleskin textiles are pretty thin and not cumbersome. They offer practically 100% protection from edge weapon attacks

PPSS has some really cool slash protect gear as well. Very thin tshirt like material
 
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