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H2 Fuel Cell bikes on the road!

There is a Hydrogen Filling station near buy and its ~$17/kg. When you do the math that makes driving a fuel cell car twice as expensive as a 25 MPG gas car. The amount of energy that it takes to compress the hydrogen to 10,000 psi is almost as much electricity to drive a Tesla to work and back.

Fuel Cell EVs (FCEV) are not very efficient. Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) are at least 3 times as efficient. Lets say you invest in a renewable energy resource, would you rather drive X many of miles with a Fuel Cell vehicle or 3X in a battery electric vehicle.

http://energypost.eu/toyota-vs-tesla-can-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-compete-electric-vehicles/

A plug-in hybrid fuel cell vehicle would make more sense then a regular fuel cell electric vehicle since the Battery is so much more efficient. Yet, a regular plug -in hybrid vehicle (PHEV) like the Chevy Volt or Prius Prime is so much more practical than a FCEV.

Compare:
Toyota Mirai
560px-Mirai_trimmed.jpg

$57,000
312 Mile Range
4,100 lb
66 MPGe
8.6 seconds 0-60 MPH


Tesla Model 3 (Long Range)
images

310 Mile Range
$44,000 ($35,000 base price)
3,800 lb
126 MPGe
5.1 seconds 0-60 MPH

My Zero is ~240 MPGe :cool:ride
 
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Kestrel said:
Everything is a stop-gap advancement until the next great thing comes along, but we're really just trading one evil for another. There's a cost to everything...
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Massive demand destruction would solve the problem, but nobody will like it, so the best next option it so kick the can down the road.
 
I looked around to see if any articles pointed out the power, range, acceleration, ect. of the Fuel Cell scooter, but I could not find much.

Coincidently, I did see a Toyota Mirai yesterday and I don't see very many even though I live close to and go by the local Campbell H2 station.

This weekend, there are may "Drive Electric Week" events going on. FCEV have full power electric traction motors, but they are really more like a series hybrid.
 
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Kestrel said:
.... but only one clean energy solution, and that's going to be the end of humanity. Planet is screwed either way when the sun is done
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You might want to consider what I'm going to do. I've been talking with the inhabitants of another galaxy a few billion light years from here about relocating there.
 
Killroy1999 said:
I looked around to see if any articles pointed out the power, range, acceleration, ect. of the Fuel Cell scooter, but I could not find much.

Coincidently, I did see a Toyota Mirai yesterday and I don't see very many even though I live close to and go by the local Campbell H2 station.
Click to expand...

There are some older articles around on Suzuki's H2 Motos, and scooters. I don't know if these scooters are the same since the articles I've read were from 2015 or so.

While there aren't many H2 cars on the road it took decades for the battery powered cars to start seeing some visibility. The H2 is very new, and there are currently only two of them in very limited production. One nice thing though is all of the H2s sold so far come with included fuel. That's right you go to the pump, use your Toyota card to fill up, and it comes out of Toyota's pocket. :thumbup
 
That's pretty cool I was wondering when the hydrogen fuel cell tech would make it to 2 wheels. One of the inconveniences of have an electric moto is charging it when your on the road. Hydrogen fuel cells allow for zero emissions of evs and quick fill ups like ICE. The problem is getting the hydrogen refined, there's tons of hydrogen in the atmosphere but it doesn't exist in a natural form.

I drove a Toyota Mirai and Honda Clarity and they were very nice cars but the tech is so new it's going to be tough to adopt like EVs are because of cost. Like I would love to have one of those Energica bikes but they're out of my price range.

I noticed there is a hydrogen fueling station now a few miles down the street from my house. So slowly they're coming. They'll be competing with pure EVs, I'll stick to the Empulse for now =P
 
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Killroy1999 said:
I looked around to see if any articles pointed out the power, range, acceleration, ect. of the Fuel Cell scooter, but I could not find much.

Coincidently, I did see a Toyota Mirai yesterday and I don't see very many even though I live close to and go by the local Campbell H2 station.

This weekend, there are may "Drive Electric Week" events going on. FCEV have full power electric traction motors, but they are really more like a series hybrid.
Click to expand...

A FCEV is pretty much like a normal EV except you have a fuel cell stack. There is a valve that opens and lets more hydrogen through the fuel cell stack and more electrons come out. There's a very small battery for a buffer and to provide power for onboard electronics. That's what the Honda dude told me when I went to drive a Clarity anyway.

Check this out I was at Toyota City in Odaiba Japan and they had this nifty cutout of a Toyota Mirai and it's components. I've been a fan of FCV for a while now. I did a research paper on them in college. =)
[YOUTUBE]HIUh3PWwjXw[/YOUTUBE]
 
HadesOmega said:
A FCEV is pretty much like a normal EV except you have a fuel cell stack. There is a valve that opens and lets more hydrogen through the fuel cell stack and more electrons come out. There's a very small battery for a buffer and to provide power for onboard electronics. That's what the Honda dude told me when I went to drive a Clarity anyway.

Check this out I was at Toyota City in Odaiba Japan and they had this nifty cutout of a Toyota Mirai and it's components. I've been a fan of FCV for a while now. I did a research paper on them in college. =)
[YOUTUBE]HIUh3PWwjXw[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...

The battery is not that small its ~1.6 kWh, which is basically gasoline electric hybrid size. The battery is a buffer for the fuel cells, so its for traction battery for the electric motors to help fill in the power requirement gaps for the fuel cell. It also stores energy for regenerative braking. I have have met sales people that are a little confused about how modern cars work. :teeth

The propulsion is explained here: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/...-cell-scooter-gets-mass-production-approval-/
 
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The only real
Solution is electric trains and a lack of need for private vehicles. Japan has the right idea. We have the wrong one.
 
HadesOmega said:
One of the inconveniences of have an electric moto is charging it when your on the road.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is inconvineint to charge a EV when your trip exceeds your range. This especially true if you are not using a fast charger.

BUT -:afm199 - when your daily trip is within your range it is much more convenient because you can charge at home and you don't have to take a trip to the gas or hydrogen station. If you don't own a EV, its hard to know this well.

Depending on your the EVs range and how many and how long your road trips are, a EV may even be more convenient overall, because when normally commuting, it takes 30 seconds to plug and unplug each day. While not as often, the gas run takes a few minutes.

It is possible to make hydrogen at home. I think this is been demonstrated in Japan. I don't know if it is that practical. Most homes do have natural gas and a fuel cell can be designed to be filled up with natural gas and in some ways that is more efficient. Most hydrogen is made form reforming natural gas today anyway.
 
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