High court to hear case of female student strip-searched for ibuprofin.

[n10sive]

This so sadly reminds me of the girl who got strip search at a McDonald's, and molested, all by someone phoning the store and pretending to be a cop This is the kind of shit that leads to that...false authority. At least it was a nurse that did it and not the principal, but it sucks either way. Call the cops.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

since when did a public school even have the authority to strip search anyone!?!??!

last i heard/checked, school officials can not even TOUCH a student. even if the school has reasonable suspicion - call the damn police in to continue the investigation and if they deem it necessary to do a search - they will.

i'm ALL for giving school A LOT more power discipline-wise, but a school strip searching a student is simply out of their league

 

[Eisernkreuz]

I'm not for giving more power to the school with regards to discipline. Teachers are not the people I want disciplining kids. They are full of bias, they play favorites, they pick on certain students, and it's simply not fair. If someone goofs off in class, sure, give them detention, or assign extra work..but too many deans think they're police detectives, running around with their two-ways. You're here to teach and provide a safe environment for teaching. That doesn't involve operating on rumors, or taking off childrens' clothes.

 

[alatus]

Just so we're all clear, a school cannot have rights. Nothing but a natural being can have rights. Organizations have powers, privileges, and authorities, but not rights.

And I don't care how much we don't know, they went way overboard, and any kind of zero tolerance policy by anyone regarding anything is fucking ridiculous, and anyone who advocates them needs their head checked.

The 'Zero Tolerance' Policy appears to me to be a way for district personnel to avoid the very probable event of exercising bad judgment and getting themselves fired (especially in this case where the administration was criminally stupid).

I abhor the No Tolerance policy because lazy, fuzzy-headed morons use it to recuse themselves from using rational, intelligent thought to make a sound judgement. I believe it to be another way for weak people to exercise increased authority but accept less (if any) responsibility for that authority.

 

[alatus]

I'm not for giving more power to the school with regards to discipline. Teachers are not the people I want disciplining kids. They are full of bias, they play favorites, they pick on certain students, and it's simply not fair.

What you describe above isn't a teacher, but a bully who happens to be taking an important job from someone better able to perform it. Yet... 'fair' doesn't have anything to do with it. Everyone is full of bias. Recognizing and teaching through a bias is perfectly natural. It is also perfectly okay to have 'favorite' students - as long as every other student gets your best efforts too. Having favorites and teaching every student can be mutually inclusive.

As a teacher, I don't want to have to to discipline your student! I have the education for A LOT of other students to worry about as well. I am sure that if you haven't already, you will raise a child that is respectful. Your child will have decent social skills, sound judgment and can get through a 6-8 hour day without engaging in some form of maladaptive behavior that will disrupt the learning environment.

Unfortunately, that is not usually the case for a large percentage of students. Currently I spend at least the first week just on behavior expectations - from high school students!! In younger grades I have seen teachers do this for up to three weeks. That is valuable instruction time we give up so that we can eventually get past behaviors and get down to the very fun, yet serious business of education.

I want to leave you with a thought. Much of the reason that administrators run around making stupid decisions is because they are scared. Stone-cold terrified that something (which may not be within their control) will occur and they will incur litigation or prosecution. It usually means a ruined career - sometimes over (what should be) small stuff. Why? Part of it is a society that makes (sometimes unreasonable) demands from educators but assumes very little responsibility in assisting educators with meeting those demands (in many ways effectively countering all efforts). Now I am not blaming parents. They are only a part of it. Terrible/lazy/stupid teachers are a part as well. Ineffective administrators, greedy supervisors, meddling politicians, an increasing sense of entitlement amongst the citizenry... the list goes on and on and on. I don't say this to excuse any behavior from anyone - only to point out that on all fronts we, as a nation, are doing a questionable job at this (critically important) education 'business'. Sorry, touched a nerve, I guess...

Peace,

John

 

[Eisernkreuz]

Thanks for taking the time to write that John

I was speaking from my brother's experience as well as mine, though from opposite ends of the spectrum. I was the guy who could get away with anything because my teachers knew I was all business when it came to school. My brother on the other hand can't get away with anything because his teachers know that he's just there to fuck around and waste time. It's natural to have a bias towards the person who makes your life easy in the classroom and against the person who makes your life difficult in class.

So, for that reason, I don't think the school should have that much power. My brother is a good person, he'd never hurt a fly, but he is consistently singled out, his locker, backpack, and wallet searched over trivial things and hearsay. He's their go-to guy whenever something happens. It's his own fault, but also shows how happy the school is to jump to conclusions and have a scapegoat for everything. Just find someone at fault to write up.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

^^
i've typed so many responses to that, this is the nicest and most straight forward one i came up with...



it is a shame that NCLB requires that people like your brother must stay in a normal class environment - often (if not daily) ruining the education of the other 32+ students in that class. but hey - that's public education for ya - and lord knows the school shouldnt have any discipline power over people like your bother, right? cuz you know, he might get singled out as, oh wait, you already said it: because he is "just there to fuck around and waste time." yea, the school shouldnt have the power to discipline kids like that, you are SO right...

students like your bother should be offered an alternative program, something that prepares them for the likely *shit* job they will be doing if/when they graduate. but lets say that hippie program exists, and your brother STILL just wants to "fuck around and waste time." then what? tell me the good reason why the schools should NOT have power/discipline to remove/deny this student from the public education system. i'm not saying we should strip search him for ibuprofen, but i am saying that he needs to be accountable for his actions and the school needs to be able to provide serious consequences for continued behavior like that of how you describe your brother.

and part of the problem is - currently - if a administration goes to all the trouble of detention, suspension, meetings, evaluations of behavior, more suspensions, a 'behavior contract', and then FINALLY expulsion .... what happens to the 'student'? they get transferred to the next nearest-to-their-house school; where the problems usually just start over again. IMO the problem is with the parents not supplying the time/effort/disipline to get their kid inline - BEFORE the school has to step in and do all that BS.



/rant

 

[Eisernkreuz]

it is a shame that NCLB requires that people like your brother must stay in a normal class environment - often (if not daily) ruining the education of the other 32+ students in that class. but hey - that's public education for ya - and lord knows the school shouldnt have any discipline power over people like your bother, right? cuz you know, he might get singled out as, oh wait, you already said it: because he is "just there to fuck around and waste time." yea, the school shouldnt have the power to discipline kids like that, you are SO right...

It's a shame school has been watered down so that every retard can follow along, making it very difficult for the smart kids to stay engaged and interested.

Actually, the kid is brilliant. His GPA is stellar, he excels in several subjects, he plays soccer for the school and a private club and has a part-time job on top of it. He knows what he wants and how he's going to get it. His problem is hardass teachers who take themselves too seriously and think high school is serious business. It's really not. It's hours of boredom with trivial tasks and busywork. Given how many times he's texted me during class to verify "factual information" his teacher was erroneously giving the class, I'd say he's more intelligent than the apes teaching the classes over at Branham High.

All too often, he has to deal with (like I did) teachers who infuse their political bias into the curriculum, teachers who are there to redeem themselves from their shitty high school experience (teachers who sit there and gossip with the teenage girls, thinking they're part of the cool club, etc), and some who are just there to try and control people to make themselves feel better.

 

[Shotline]

The 'Zero Tolerance' Policy appears to me to be a way for district personnel to avoid the very probable event of exercising bad judgment and getting themselves fired (especially in this case where the administration was criminally stupid).

I abhor the No Tolerance policy because lazy, fuzzy-headed morons use it to recuse themselves from using rational, intelligent thought to make a sound judgement. I believe it to be another way for weak people to exercise increased authority but accept less (if any) responsibility for that authority.

Wow, that is quite an opinion you have there. Do you know why these no tolerance policies came into being? Because somebody did exercise their judgment and something bad happened and the schools got sued.

Here is an example from my current job. I work as a deputy in a jail. As a deputy I am not allowed to give the inmates any kind of medicine that has not been perscibed by a doctor, not even an aspirin, because if I do I am construed as giving medical treatment. And if I give medical treatment to the inmates I can be sued because I am not a doctor.

So, while fuzzy-headed morons may use it to hide behind, it is really there to prevent well meaning and probably intelligent people from being sued for trying to help.

In this case the school went to far and should have called the authorities.

 

[Climber]

It's a shame school has been watered down so that every retard can follow along, making it very difficult for the smart kids to stay engaged and interested.

It was like this over 30 years ago where they were teaching at the level of the slowest 25%. I hope that it hasn't gotten worse, it was hard enough back then getting 2 minutes worth of learning from 50 minutes worth of sitting.

 

[Mike T]

no....not at all.....hell...now i know why kids refer school as prison...

 

[Marlowe]

My middle school was designed (and looked like it) by the same architect responsible for a nearby state prison.

 

[Climber]

One of the great and continuing tragedies that I see in this country is all of the money that has been moving from our schools (and especially the after-school programs) over to prisons. It is stupidity compounded to continue to remove money for after-school programs and essentially (if not directly) dumping that money into prisons.

 

[n10sive]

One of the great and continuing tragedies that I see in this country is all of the money that has been moving from our schools (and especially the after-school programs) over to prisons. It is stupidity compounded to continue to remove money for after-school programs and essentially (if not directly) dumping that money into prisons.

I don't know where you get this. Having a family member in prison, I can tell you without a doubt, that they are stripping the prisons bare. They have cut prison education, health, prison industries...you name it. They are even taking cold showers now in Nevada because they cut the heat to save money.

We WASTE too much money in our school systems. It's not that we don't give them what they need. But the schools are required to teach EVERYONE, regardless of citizenship. As previously stated, we also spend all our time and energy teaching the bottom 25% since we cannot make anyone feel 'lessor', so all the kids are treated as equals. So we dismantle GATE programs and the arts to 'equalize' the kids. Is it any wonder countries like India who put a lot into their education, and even screen out the 'lessors' are taking our jobs?

We also use 'tenure' to ensure that the fat and lazy teachers stay fat and lazy, while the hungry smart new ones get kicked to the curb.

No...our education system is failing, but it is not because of prisons.

 

[SpeedyCorky]

fact:

the government figures out how many prisons they need to build for the future; based on the test scores of current 3rd graders.

this doesnt exactly necessarily mean that the prisons are 'taking' money from the schools, it just means the government is 'choosing' (i put the quotes because it is not exactly a choice) to put the money into the symptom (crime) instead of the cure (education). not to mention the fact that many government officials are personally invested in companys that stand to benefit from more prisons being built...


ok, if i post again in this thread - i'll try to at least somewhat remain on topic to the ibuprofen case

oh yea and Eisernkreuz, your brother sounds like a smart guy; wasnt saying back there that he was stupid - just ranting about the fact that there are not alternatives for students like him and that there is little to nothing the school can do to discipline a student like that - ESPECIALLY if he was getting good (state) test scores. schools want to keep kids like him b/c having 1 more kid who gets good test scores makes the school look good (and earn more $) - and the school doesnt want to suspend him b/c that is 1 less warm body at the school that day which equates to less $ for the school....so the system of education puts the administration in a position that prevents them (because of $) from disciplining students like your brother. i could go on.... i think i'll go make a stiff drink instead .....

 

[Climber]

I don't know where you get this. Having a family member in prison, I can tell you without a doubt, that they are stripping the prisons bare. They have cut prison education, health, prison industries...you name it. They are even taking cold showers now in Nevada because they cut the heat to save money.

We WASTE too much money in our school systems. It's not that we don't give them what they need. But the schools are required to teach EVERYONE, regardless of citizenship. As previously stated, we also spend all our time and energy teaching the bottom 25% since we cannot make anyone feel 'lessor', so all the kids are treated as equals. So we dismantle GATE programs and the arts to 'equalize' the kids. Is it any wonder countries like India who put a lot into their education, and even screen out the 'lessors' are taking our jobs?

We also use 'tenure' to ensure that the fat and lazy teachers stay fat and lazy, while the hungry smart new ones get kicked to the curb.

No...our education system is failing, but it is not because of prisons.

That's probably because much of the money goes to salaries and to house the ever-increasing numbers of incarcerated people.

Prisons' budget to trump colleges'

As the costs for fixing the state's troubled corrections system rocket higher, California is headed for a dubious milestone -- for the first time the state will spend more on incarcerating inmates than on educating students in its public universities.

Our poll software uses a variety of methods to ensure that only votes determined to be valid are tabulated. When this determination cannot be made, we may not process your vote.

Based on current spending trends, California's prison budget will overtake spending on the state's universities in five years. No other big state in the country spends close to as much on its prisons compared with universities.

But California has all but guaranteed that prisons will eat up an increasingly large share of taxpayer money because of chronic failures in a system that the state is now planning to expand.

Under a new state law, California will spend $7.4 billion to build 40,000 new prison beds, and that is over and above the current annual operating budget of more than $10 billion. Interest payments alone on the billions of dollars of bonds that will be sold to finance the new construction will amount to $330 million a year by 2011 -- all money that will not be available for higher education or other state priorities.

 

[n10sive]

That's probably because much of the money goes to salaries and to house the ever-increasing numbers of incarcerated people.

Yeah..but you said MOVING, not INCREASING which to me, meant to imply that money was being diverted from schools to prisons. But I do agree that the prison population has skyrocketed and is consuming more resources. I think we can thank mandatory sentencing for that Heck, this poor little girl was probably not only strip searched, but is now a registered drug offender and if she is caught with cough syrup, she'll have to do a mandatory 10 yr sentence for it don't-know-whether-to-laugh-or-cry-emoticon)

edit: oh..and thanks for the links/data

 

[Dandelion]

=this doesnt exactly necessarily mean that the prisons are 'taking' money from the schools, it just means the government is 'choosing' (i put the quotes because it is not exactly a choice) to put the money into the symptom (crime) instead of the cure (education).

I have a different viewpoint I think the symptom is poverty and the cure is parenting. Being a teacher used to be about teaching, not jouvenile day care, it used to be a well respected and well paid job, not anymore. The education system is broken and needs a major overhaul and a lot of parents out there need a kick in the ass to do their job.

I think it's overstepping to strip search the girl, call law enforcement instead.

 

[Idontdotrix]

it isn't appropriate to strip search a CHILD over ibuprofen, I don't care who's doing it.

if they believed there were narcotics involved, then possibly, by law enforcement only, and with parental notification.

scrip strength Ibuprofen is no different than taking higher doses of the OTC stuff.

god help any over the line administrator whoever thinks to try something like that with my child.

 

[Arminius]

I have a different viewpoint I think the symptom is poverty and the cure is parenting. Being a teacher used to be about teaching, not jouvenile day care, it used to be a well respected and well paid job, not anymore. The education system is broken and needs a major overhaul and a lot of parents out there need a kick in the ass to do their job.

I think it's overstepping to strip search the girl, call law enforcement instead.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary

http://dcjobsource.com/teachersalaries.html

Teachers are paid more than most people think. The numbers speak for themselves.

For comparison:
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=la&l1=US
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Citizens_Inc/Salary
http://www.engineersalary.com/overpaid.asp