Honda to DMG, Thanks but no thanks.

[afm199]

Trust me, nobody here wants to race a Norton. Really.

 

[Gabester]

...that's called formula vintage

 

[2000yellow360]

Trust me, nobody here wants to race a Norton. Really.

The Nortons were the best of the bunch. The real wobblers were the Hondas and Kawasakis. The Ducatis were the only ones that didn't wobble, and once you got some decent power out of them, and put slicks on them, watch out, they would be a handfull.

Art

 

[afmotorsports]

Do you really need the Factories for good close racing? I'm all for the best technology and all the other stuff that comes from factory involvment but we will see the same trickle down effect we always have with all the other series in the world still doing really well.

(same reply I posted for Shawnery on SBR)
My friend, you've been to an AMA Pro race, right?? What makes up the vast majority of vendor space at Laguna Seca?? OEM's and their bigass displays. Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Ducati (island), Aprilia, etc. What happens when DMG basically tells all of them to go eff themselves?? They go buh-bye, take their tractor trailers, teams, riders and marketing dollars. What do you have left?? A bunch of privateers, a bunch of skanks selling t-shirts and twenty kinds of nasty, greazy food kiosks. Are you paying $50 to watch that freak show??

DMG bought AMA Pro which is basically the "stage" for a show that had been going on for many years (aka AMA Pro roadracing). It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't really phucked up either. So instead of figuring out how to find more sponsorship support and do a bunch of marketing and advertising (which btw is what I had expected given their NASCRAP pedigree) they proceeded to phuck with the OEMs. Yes, the OEMs spending millions and millions of dollars to support the series. Yes, the OEMs who were rolling multiple big rigs, supporting multiple "B-level" teams, paying for all the "stars of the show": the crews and riders. If you were a movie director who bought a stage for a show and somebody else was paying for all the actor's salaries, all the props, all the support staff... who in their right mind would start screwing with these people?????? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of in my entire life! AMA Pro was "selling" a show with Mladin, Spies, Hayes, Bostrom, Yates, etc. and collecting money for tickets, but it wasn't costing them a phucking NICKEL to have all those riders, crews and rigs out there! What kind of an imbecil would want to chase such a freebie away?????? That's just INSANE!!! Millions of dollars just vanished from the series. Who will make that up, Buell????

Without OEM support (as in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), AMA Pro is no different than WERA or AFM. If the OEMs go to WERA or start another national series, where are the fans going to go?? The DMG series with privateers racing out of toyhaulers or the OEM's series, complete with star riders, trucks, and multi-million dollars marketing/advertising dollars??

"The Show" as DMG calls it is THE OEM's, not the lappers who are bitching and whining that their bikes are not as fast and their tires are not as good as the factory riders. Where are last year's privateer lappers in 2009?? Same friggin place they were last year: back of the pack, getting lapped. Johnny Rock Page is the perfect example.

 

[budman]

I hate to tell you this, but all sports are way down on attendance. With the recession/depression, one of the first things that suffers is entertainment, which, BTW includes sports.

I've been actively involved in AMA politics for a while. The factories made sure that no one besides themselves had a shot. That meant that people like JU, didn't get the good parts, even when the rules specified that they were entitled. Michael Jordon couldn't get those parts either. That meant that the sport was never going to grow, never get sponsors out of the industry, and would never get a following other than the enthusiasts. Well, that may be well and good for the addicts, but it's poor for the sport, and when this economy finally gets over the morons from the right's attempted destruction of it, we'll probably see a much broader based sport, with real opportunities for competitors and team owners to earn a living from a sport they love.

Art

Definately agree..

 

[2000yellow360]

(same reply I posted for Shawnery on SBR)
My friend, you've been to an AMA Pro race, right?? What makes up the vast majority of vendor space at Laguna Seca?? OEM's and their bigass displays. Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, Suzuki, Ducati (island), Aprilia, etc. What happens when DMG basically tells all of them to go eff themselves?? They go buh-bye, take their tractor trailers, teams, riders and marketing dollars. What do you have left?? A bunch of privateers, a bunch of skanks selling t-shirts and twenty kinds of nasty, greazy food kiosks. Are you paying $50 to watch that freak show??

DMG bought AMA Pro which is basically the "stage" for a show that had been going on for many years (aka AMA Pro roadracing). It wasn't perfect, but it wasn't really phucked up either. So instead of figuring out how to find more sponsorship support and do a bunch of marketing and advertising (which btw is what I had expected given their NASCRAP pedigree) they proceeded to phuck with the OEMs. Yes, the OEMs spending millions and millions of dollars to support the series. Yes, the OEMs who were rolling multiple big rigs, supporting multiple "B-level" teams, paying for all the "stars of the show": the crews and riders. If you were a movie director who bought a stage for a show and somebody else was paying for all the actor's salaries, all the props, all the support staff... who in their right mind would start screwing with these people?????? That has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard of in my entire life! AMA Pro was "selling" a show with Mladin, Spies, Hayes, Bostrom, Yates, etc. and collecting money for tickets, but it wasn't costing them a phucking NICKEL to have all those riders, crews and rigs out there! What kind of an imbecil would want to chase such a freebie away?????? That's just INSANE!!! Millions of dollars just vanished from the series. Who will make that up, Buell????

Without OEM support (as in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$), AMA Pro is no different than WERA or AFM. If the OEMs go to WERA or start another national series, where are the fans going to go?? The DMG series with privateers racing out of toyhaulers or the OEM's series, complete with star riders, trucks, and multi-million dollars marketing/advertising dollars??

"The Show" as DMG calls it is THE OEM's, not the lappers who are bitching and whining that their bikes are not as fast and their tires are not as good as the factory riders. Where are last year's privateer lappers in 2009?? Same friggin place they were last year: back of the pack, getting lapped. Johnny Rock Page is the perfect example.

Alex:

While they may not be racing, I can assure you that if one of the manufacturers is at the track, they all will be, because they need the sales. They raced because they wanted the advertising, and they wanted to game the system, to ensure that they controlled the winning, and therefore the advertising.

The pits will be full, and the "lappers" will get some better materials. An example is that Yosh is now selling exactly the same equipment as they raced, save and except the front fork kit, which will be another 5k (an insert that DMG decided was a safety factor).

Johnny isn't a good example. He's doing a reality show, and although he is quick enough to qualify, he isn't a regular, and has his own agenda. His video however, has been fun, and may even be profitable, for me at least.....

Art

 

[RichK]

...we'll probably see a much broader based sport, with real opportunities for competitors and team owners to earn a living from a sport they love.

Art

This sounds just like Edmonson's argument for the Grand Am sportscar series that nobody attends. Great for competitors, but competitors don't buy tickets or watch on TV.

EVERY big-time racing series has manufacturers deeply involved in the marketing of the sport. EVERY big-time racing series has haves and have-nots. Sadly, the AMA/DMG series is not big-time anymore, and you only have to read Alex's post above for the reasons why.

 

[afmotorsports]

...we'll probably see a much broader based sport, with real opportunities for competitors and team owners to earn a living from a sport they love.

In the long run, Art is actually right about this. However, maybe where he and I disagree is how you get to that point. Is it smart to throw a grenade at the "old AMA" and blow it up?? I don't think so. The way I see it, you don't blow something up until you have a better solution in place, ready to go. You don't quit a $hitty job until you have another one lined up, right? DMG blew up the old series and as far as I can tell, they don't have anyone to take the place of the departing OEMs. That's dumb.

 

[B-Cuz]

Don't know much behind the scenes but enjoying this discussion either way...yea consider this a subscribe post.

 

[2000yellow360]

In the long run, Art is actually right about this. However, maybe where he and I disagree is how you get to that point. Is it smart to throw a grenade at the "old AMA" and blow it up?? I don't think so. The way I see it, you don't blow something up until you have a better solution in place, ready to go. You don't quit a $hitty job until you have another one lined up, right? DMG blew up the old series and as far as I can tell, they don't have anyone to take the place of the departing OEMs. That's dumb.

Actually, the folks at DMG attempted to work with the factories, but wanted an equal playing field. The specific rules were such that DMG absolutely didn't want to upset the factories, but there was no talking to them about this.

I think that John Ulrich had a series where he pointed out the lies, misinformation, and other forms of bullsh1t that the factories put out regarding this, and DMG's honest responses.

I wouldn't blame the folks at DMG (at least for that issue), because this wasn't their fault. The factories didn't want the sale to go through (didn't want the France family in control), and have attempted at every level to blow it up.

The AMA wasn't competent to handle that series,; if you knew what I knew about things they'd done, you'd be ill. Special rules for their favorites, money disappearing (now a criminal case), etc., not a good deal.

Art

 

[afmotorsports]

I dunno 'bout that, Art. Have you talked to JU lately? He seemed quite disappointed in DMG in his last WERA posts and lost faith/trust in their word. I think he even said something about not blaming the OEM's for not believing Roger's word. DMG, the OEMs, the promoters, etc. they're all supposed to be "business partners" but when you lose trust in your business partners nothing good comes of that. I would argue the current state of AMA Pro is a textbook example and I won't be surprised if this whole mess someday becomes a Harvard business case...

 

[FlatulentDan]

I don't know sh*t about the politics of all this and don't really want to know, but I am curious. DMG has taken thier 'NASCAR' approach and it seems that those arguing in favor of DMG do so becaue they have created a series where anyone with equal money can come in and win....

I don't follow road racing and I follow NASCAR even less.... but can a privitere come into NASCAR, build a car, for a team and Challange for the win? I'm guessing not just becuae of the powerful money behind that win.

Can someone correct me or tell me why it's OK for money to run NASCAR teams but not OK for them to run Motorcyle teams?

 

[AFM 691]

I don't care about the politics involved. I just want to watch races that are entertaining, and the racing in the AMA/DMG this year was more entertaining than it has been in a long time.

 

[2000yellow360]

I dunno 'bout that, Art. Have you talked to JU lately? He seemed quite disappointed in DMG in his last WERA posts and lost faith/trust in their word. I think he even said something about not blaming the OEM's for not believing Roger's word. DMG, the OEMs, the promoters, etc. they're all supposed to be "business partners" but when you lose trust in your business partners nothing good comes of that. I would argue the current state of AMA Pro is a textbook example and I won't be surprised if this whole mess someday becomes a Harvard business case...

I'm in Daytona Beach in October. JU will be in Daytona in October. Of course there is a race there, but I try to have dinner with David Atlas (partner in DMG) whenever I'm around. Make what you will of it.

Art

 

[2000yellow360]

I don't know sh*t about the politics of all this and don't really want to know, but I am curious. DMG has taken thier 'NASCAR' approach and it seems that those arguing in favor of DMG do so becaue they have created a series where anyone with equal money can come in and win....

I don't follow road racing and I follow NASCAR even less.... but can a privitere come into NASCAR, build a car, for a team and Challange for the win? I'm guessing not just becuae of the powerful money behind that win.

Can someone correct me or tell me why it's OK for money to run NASCAR teams but not OK for them to run Motorcyle teams?

You've missed the point. Money didn't get you a win in the old AMA. That was the point. Unless you were a factory team, no matter how much money you had, you weren't going to win. Michael Jordon is a prime example of that issue.

What DMG has done is level the playing field. If you've got the money, talent, etc., then you have a chance. You didn't before.

Art

 

[Lazerus]

What DMG has done is slant the playing field in favor of buell.

Art

Fixed:|

 

[2000yellow360]

Fixed:|

I am always amazed at some people's hubris. Let's take a short look at you and at the people you've been complaining about.

DMG: Owned by the France family. Been in the business of racing for over 50 years, the most successful family enterprise in racing in the USA. Net worth in excess of 1B. Management: Counsel: David Atlas, been around racing for over 40 years, represents the best in racing, including Jimmy Vasser, and others, used to be Penske's general counsel. CEO: Roger Edmunson: been in racing for over 40 years, started one of the most successful AMA series, Supersport.

You: Not much there, perhaps a club racer, maybe some involvement in a regional amateur racing series.

The bottom line is that the Buel and the Suzuki are about even. The Buel has a horsepower advantage, but doesn't have the handling of the Suzuki. I can't comment on the other brands, I don't know enough about them to accurately describe their advantages or disavanages.

Anything you'd like to add about your qualifications to add any validity to your babbling?

Art

 

[RichK]

I am always amazed at some people's hubris. Let's take a short look at you and at the people you've been complaining about.

DMG: Owned by the France family. Been in the business of racing for over 50 years, the most successful family enterprise in racing in the USA. Net worth in excess of 1B. Management: Counsel: David Atlas, been around racing for over 40 years, represents the best in racing, including Jimmy Vasser, and others, used to be Penske's general counsel. CEO: Roger Edmunson: been in racing for over 40 years, started one of the most successful AMA series, Supersport.

You: Not much there, perhaps a club racer, maybe some involvement in a regional amateur racing series.

The bottom line is that the Buel and the Suzuki are about even. The Buel has a horsepower advantage, but doesn't have the handling of the Suzuki. I can't comment on the other brands, I don't know enough about them to accurately describe their advantages or disavanages.

Anything you'd like to add about your qualifications to add any validity to your babbling?

Art

Unbelievable. That babbling came from a ticket-buying, TV-watching fan. A former fan, I'm guessing, like me and thousands of others who walked out the door this season.

 

[Gabester]

....we won't be paying that tix anymore ...... more beer money

 

[elskipador]

what i don't understand is why dmg tried to nascar the ama instead of trying to supercross it? clear channel seems to do a great job of getting the oem's, riders, fans, etc...all out for a good time. i was @ every ama/dmg race this year & besides njmp the fan turn out was really low.