HOV ticket question, time related

[nweaver]

I wonder if clocks and other timekeeping devices are exempt from the hearsay rules?

"Your honor, someone somewhere said someone was doing something bad."

The links in question end up being in the sub-second error range.

So such drift matters if you are dealing with something where time actually matters to more than 20 seconds of precision.

 

[nweaver]

not to thread jack, but while we're on the subject of HOV lanes, what's the deal with the sudden shift on 680 NB before the bridge? driving almost to the bridge the signs all say 2 or more occupants, then suddenly a sign says 3 or more. you're already in the lane legally with 2 ppl- how much time do you have to get out of it when that sign comes up? and what happens if traffic is really bad and you can't exit the lane bc all the folks ticked off they couldn't use the HOV lane won't let you in?
I'm confused by this instant transition so close to the bridge- do they think I can somehow manage an additional occupant instantly?

No, what it is is they want carpools of 2 people to be able to have the advantage of the carpool lane for transit but NOT free toll.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

(206) 764-HERO

 

[Razel]

Unless Rel got moved back to days recently, he isn't the FTO in this case.

He's been babysitting the Bay Bridge ...

 

[MysterYvil]

It's just a pet-peeve of mine since I carpool - and when I'm not carpooling I generally wait until 5 minutes after to use the lane.

Ditto here! Mainly out of courtesy, but a little bit out of paranoia...I don't want a tall ticket for anything that saves me so little time in the long run.

 

[Idontdotrix]

No, what it is is they want carpools of 2 people to be able to have the advantage of the carpool lane for transit but NOT free toll.

has this been changed on all the bridges? I live in Sac and don't have to deal with bridges often

when we were last down there it was a Friday and traffic was heavy. we took the carpool lane but just before the bride it changed to 3 occupants- and getting out of the lane and all the way across to the cash toll booth was nearly impossible.

can I get some LEO output on this in figuring out how to safely change lanes once this requirement changes, how much time to effect a lane change, what to do if you're blocked in, etc?

suddenly diverting a number of vehicles out of the HOV lane into regular traffic, and needing to cross multiple lanes in a limited distance for the cash booths (all the way to the right only) seems like a dangerous idea.

 

[nweaver]

has this been changed on all the bridges? I live in Sac and don't have to deal with bridges often

I think the benicia bridge may be the only one where the carpool for toll is 3 but the approach is 2. Everywhere else IIRC, the carpool is 3 and the bridge is 3, or there is no carpool lane on the approach.

 

[Human Ills]

Did the San Mateo and the Dumbarton go to 3? It was always two when I used them.

 

[Traq]

Info on carpools @ bridges. I didn't know there was a 3 person requirement on them now!

http://rideshare.511.org/rideshare_rewards/bridges.asp

 

[hitman5532]

you guys have compleatly cluttered and derailed the thread... I am sure there is a thread somewhere about 3 persons in a car carpool lane requirements

 

[tgrrdr]

not to thread jack, but while we're on the subject of HOV lanes, what's the deal with the sudden shift on 680 NB before the bridge? driving almost to the bridge the signs all say 2 or more occupants, then suddenly a sign says 3 or more. you're already in the lane legally with 2 ppl- how much time do you have to get out of it when that sign comes up? and what happens if traffic is really bad and you can't exit the lane bc all the folks ticked off they couldn't use the HOV lane won't let you in?
I'm confused by this instant transition so close to the bridge- do they think I can somehow manage an additional occupant instantly?

there's plenty of time to merge over. It's been awhile since I actually paid attention to it but the car pool lane on the approach ends at least 2-3,000 feet (1/2 mile?) before the toll booths. The lane turns into a fastrak lane and you actually have to merge left to use the carpool lane - see attached pic. I've never seen traffic backed up enough that you can't merge over into the cash lanes. [/hijack]

 

[}Dragon{]

you guys have compleatly cluttered and derailed the thread... I am sure there is a thread somewhere about 3 persons in a car carpool lane requirements

Sorry- we're good at that sometimes.

Let us know how it goes. You may want to do trial by declaration to contest it. If you loose TBD, you could subpoena the Officer(s) notes and what they used to determine the time of the violation.

 

[ex911]

Your defense will be to ask the officer how he sets his clock, which clock he used, how he verified the clock was accurate before the stop etc.

If he answers all of these well then you are toast. If not, you can introduce reasonable doubt. Really you should have asked this of the officer at the stop too, and noted his answers and/or if possible verified the clock he used yourself.

On the other hand you have nothing to loose. There is not point awarded IIRC, and if you just mail in the fine you are paying the maximum. So if you can afford the time at court, there really is no downside to exercising your right to a trial and having the citation proved beyond reasonable doubt.

YMMV.

Be careful here thinking that there is no point awarded. The only ticket I have gotten in the last 10 years was for a HOV violation, I paid the tix because the issuing cop said it was not eligible for traffic school (I think that was bad advice, btw) and my insurance saw that violation on my record for 3 years, just like any other moving violation (and it did affect my premium for those 3 years).

 

[what]

I honestly think you will lose. You should not be in the lane unless you know it is after 9 am. It is on you to KNOW it is after 9. If you don't know, you don't go.

It's on the officer to know that it's after 9 in order to cite, and to be able to prove that it's after 9 in court. It sounds like neither party has adequate timekeeping.

I'm surprised that LEOs don't have a clock in their car sync'd to WWV. It would seem like a very simple and important data point to have. My $10 alarm clock uses it; the device would pay itself off after its first use in court

 

[9integra2]

Be careful here thinking that there is no point awarded. The only ticket I have gotten in the last 10 years was for a HOV violation, I paid the tix because the issuing cop said it was not eligible for traffic school (I think that was bad advice, btw) and my insurance saw that violation on my record for 3 years, just like any other moving violation (and it did affect my premium for those 3 years).

HOV is a non moving violation and traffic school is not an option. Your DMV driving record will reflect a HOV violation, but will not incur a DMV "point". Why your insurance company raised your rate based on this violation is their thing.

 

[ex911]

HOV is a non moving violation and traffic school is not an option. Your DMV driving record will reflect a HOV violation, but will not incur a DMV "point". Why your insurance company raised your rate based on this violation is their thing.

Interesting. My insurance (Geico) said the violation was for "disobeying posted signs" and it was a moving violation!

 

[9integra2]

Interesting. My insurance (Geico) said the violation was for "disobeying posted signs" and it was a moving violation!

That IS a moving violation. I'm sure 99% of HOV tickets are written for violating 21655.5(b)VC, but you got the other 1%, making it a moving violation. Sorry it had to go that way for you.

 

[Traq]

Interesting. My insurance (Geico) said the violation was for "disobeying posted signs" and it was a moving violation!

That is a different violation than the HOV violation. Maybe the cop wrote you up incorrectly by accident, or maybe he wrote it up incorrectly on purpose to cut you a break on the fine. You should check what section you were actually cited for...maybe you can dispute it with Geico still if you find out they improperly raised your rates (complain to the Insurance Commissioner if they refuse IMO). And yea, I know you're talking about something that happened several years ago, but if they violated the rules they don't just get to get away with it...if your ticket was for HOV and not the other then they fucked up and should owe you money (if there was justice in the world).

21461(a) failure to obey signs/signals ~$146 and 1 point
21655.5(b) improper use of preferential lanes ~$380 and no point

 

[Razel]

But, if it was a moving violation, then wouldn't the OP be eligible for Traffic School, and thus not have it show up so Geico could see it?

 

[Kornholio]

But, if it was a moving violation, then wouldn't the OP be eligible for Traffic School, and thus not have it show up so Geico could see it?

That's up to the judge. I know for a fact that Hayward court will not allow traffic school if you're popped for speeding over 85. :|