How do Cops choose when to cut you Slack?

[c56&t789]

Having a CDL, I believe has helped me get many warnings and only a few tickets.

 

[Jvx84]

Police officer ticket quotas are the biggest unsubstantiated line of crap that for some reason the public loves to believe.

Ah sorry, I am currently living in Europe. Denmark to be specific. It's well documented here.

I suspect that fines are used for generating income elsewhere as well; in this country it's just done openly.

 

[Burning1]

FWIW: I slow down for warnings out of respect and appreciation. With citations I'll usually only adjust my riding habits as much as necessary to avoid a citation in the future.

 

[mean dad]

Police officer ticket quotas are the biggest unsubstantiated line of crap that for some reason the public loves to believe.

Quota's are bullshit. 100%.

you linked a news article verifying that LAPD had a quota, to prove police don't have quotas?!?


quotas are bullshit? they're not real?

then how the fuck did the jury award the settlement? because...wait for it...THE DEPARTMENT HAD QUOTAS.

call them quotas, performance expectations, whatever.

the only reason LAPD doesn't still have them (yeah, right. wanna bet?) is because 2 cops had to sue for the story to come out.
but I'm sure that's the only instance anywhere that police have quotas, right?

 

[silverbelt]

you linked a news article verifying that LAPD had a quota, to prove police don't have quotas?!?


quotas are bullshit? they're not real?

then how the fuck did the jury award the settlement? because...wait for it...THE DEPARTMENT HAD QUOTAS.

call them quotas, performance expectations, whatever.

the only reason LAPD doesn't still have them (yeah, right. wanna bet?) is because 2 cops had to sue for the story to come out.
but I'm sure that's the only instance anywhere that police have quotas, right?

Quotas are just a synonym for "performance management". If your assigned traffic enforcement duty, yeah there probably is some expectation to write X number of citations, although this does not necessarily mean there is a quota per month or per year.

If quotas really existed, there are any number of prime spots where one could write as many as tickets as their heart desired and get a better chance at a promotion and a bigger paycheck.

 

[mean dad]

Quotas are just a synonym for "performance management". If your assigned traffic enforcement duty, yeah there probably is some expectation to write X number of citations, although this does not necessarily mean there is a quota per month or per year.

If quotas really existed, there are any number of prime spots where one could write as many as tickets as their heart desired and get a better chance at a promotion and a bigger paycheck.

lulz. they obviously DO exist, or the article detailing a lawsuit would be non-existant.

if the officers hadn't sued, the "quota", or "performance management" would still be in place.

I just think it's absolutely hysterical that kornholio posted a link for a quota lawsuit to prove that there's no such thing as quotas

 

[Burning1]

you linked a news article verifying that LAPD had a quota, to prove police don't have quotas?!?

He linked to an article stating that the LAPD was busted for having a quota, to support the argument that quotas are illegal and punished. No one here has argued that they don't exist, or that the police aren't encouraged to hand out more tickets. But anything that could constitute a quota is illegal, and will eventually be exposed and punished, because it's in the officer's best interests to do so.

 

[mean dad]

I understand now, and I understood then.
I still think it's funny, cause quotas obviously ARE being used. They're just being used with a wink and a nod.

And I repeat, if those two (or more) officers HADN'T sued, it would still be (illegally) in place.
How many departments do you suppose haven't been sued?

 

[morthrane]

Back to the original topic: I'm convinced (by my experience getting pulled over... uhm, too many times) that it comes down to attitude followed by appearance.

For a while it puzzled me greatly, because when pulled over by an Officer while obviously doing wrong, I'd always be polite and sincere*... and easily 9 out of 10 or better was a warning, even after pulling some seriously stupid stunts, like getting big airtime in front of a MC cop on my way into the office.

But every time I'm pulled over by an Officer, when I'm close to 100% sure that I was obeying all laws, I can't help but cop an attitude. And that's when shit goes really wrong, like getting hit with an illegal misdemeanor charge, or having a CHP officer threaten to taze/beat/arrest me and impound my bike because I had the temerity to honk my horn when he made a u-turn and cut me off at the bottom of hwy9. Or a campbell cop that put a gun to my head for telling him, "If I was robbing this corporate office, why I am sitting on my bike in front of the office waiting for you to show up?"

Short story, the Officer's perception of you matters. That perception is based on how you carry yourself and how you speak.






*sincere, because lying to someone who spends all day listening to bad liars is darwinian-stupid.

 

[Kornholio]

I understand now, and I understood then.
I still think it's funny, cause quotas obviously ARE being used. They're just being used with a wink and a nod.

And I repeat, if those two (or more) officers HADN'T sued, it would still be (illegally) in place.
How many departments do you suppose haven't been sued?

Lets assume for a moment that every department had quotas. Do you really think they're even necessary? The reality is that if an officer wanted to cite you for going one mile an hour over the speed limit, they could. How many of the people cited for that would be able to afford the time off to go to court to fight it? Not that there would be much of a fight anyway. The judge would probably throw it out. They could generate easy revenue just based on the amount of people that pay the fine to take the traffic school option. They could also write tickets for equipment violations all day and night too...but they don't. Everyone seems to think that just because they were the one that got selected that day, there must be some conspiracy...or quota...that prevented them from getting off with a warning. Since finding PC to write a citation is actually far easier than it seems to the average citizen, what would be the point of quotas?

The reality is that there is difference between performance measures, public perception of enforcement in a certain area (whether requested or not) and a true quota. The lieutenant stating in the shift briefing that they'd like to see more cites out of a certain area of a traffic beat is not a quota, it's a request from a supervisor to step up enforcement. There are various reasons for that, but a lot of times it's because the public has complained enough about speeders or otherwise in that area. It can also be due to a large amount of traffic collisions in that area. Now, that same lieutenant stating that an officer will receive a poor performance review if they don't cite at least 15 drivers during a shift, that's a quota. That is illegal. The prior stated scenario is not.

 

[fawndog]

How do Cops choose when to cut you Slack?

I keep the glove compartment stocked

 

[Kornholio]

 

[mean dad]

uh yeah, ok.

that's a lot of words to refute my finding humor in your original post. thanks for assuming I'm a complete idiot as far as police tactics and man-hour expenditures go, and yes, I agree that we'll call it anything but quotas.

but to get so arrogantly indignant over the public's perception that there would EVER be a quota (the outrage! why don't they trust us?!?), while providing a link where a department was sued for having a quota is asinine.

 

[Kornholio]

uh yeah, ok.

that's a lot of words to refute my finding humor in your original post. thanks for assuming I'm a complete idiot as far as police tactics and man-hour expenditures go, and yes, I agree that we'll call it anything but quotas.

but to get so arrogantly indignant over the public's perception that there would EVER be a quota (the outrage! why don't they trust us?!?), while providing a link where a department was sued for having a quota is asinine.

I'm not sure why you've taken anything I've posted thus far personally, Kevin. That's not how it was intended. BTW, the department was sued by officers, not the public. Admittedly, it'd probably be pretty difficult and time consuming for John Q. Public to prove a department and/or its officers are following a quota.

The only humor I found in that post is that it was officers bringing the suit, not the public.

 

[SlideSF]

Last ticket I got (and the first one in 20 years), the officer gave me a long lecture about the dangers of passing a vehicle going 50 at 58 in a 55 zone over a broken line with no oncoming traffic. He told me all about deer, drunk drivers, and drunker Harley riders. He informed me that I obviously couldn't see where I was going because if I could have I would have seen him and not made the pass (in fact I saw him and even waved because I felt like what I was doing was perfectly acceptable).

I was fully geared, licensed, and insured. I was polite and quite respectful, and I'm definitely no kid. I indulged him in his long lecture because I was sure he was going to let me off the hook. But no dice: he wrote me up for 60 in a 55 (no way was I even going 60, although it's hard to be accurate to 2mph, and there's no difference fine-wise anyway), and sent me on my way.

I thought about contesting it, but it really wasn't worth the effort. He coulda let me off, but chose not to. That's his business. I'm over it now, except for the occasional vent on various motorcycle fora...

 

[Burning1]

The only humor I found in that post is that it was officers bringing the suit, not the public.

That's exactly it. The police department can't have a quota any more than it can have a 'no African American officers' policy. If there was a shred of proof that a quota existed, any officer facing disciplinary action or dismissal could use it to sue the department. Certainly the department can pressure officers to issue more tickets, just as they can have a bias towards or against hiring certain ethnicities... But it can never be an official policy, nor can it be wide-spread because it's just too much trouble.

I do believe for sure that there can be pressure from local municipalities to enforce certain kinds of law. We saw that in some of California's speed trap towns. We've also seen officers cite municipal codes over state codes for that reason, or to offer a break to drivers.

The system certainly isn't perfect, but it's by no means terrible. I would love to see the speed laws revamped with modern vehicles in mind. I would love for officers to focus a little more on equipment and signaling violations... I've seen systems that are better first hand, and systems that are much worse, first hand. All and all, I'm okay with it.

I just prefer to focus on how it can improve over what I don't like about it.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

How do Cops choose when to cut you Slack?

What can you say other than some bikes are awful at lawful speed... see Mr.CHP's face...
he's going 90mph down the perverted highway in his dreams...

 

[ToraTora]

,

 

[vought]

In my experience, being alert - having high situational awareness and looking ahead, not just in front of me - and having a short reaction time to acknowledge enforcement is the best way to get out of a potential performance award. Two contrasting situations come to mind:

-1992, I-15 in Southern Nevada: 100+ on a mostly empty Interstate. I saw the officer about a half-mile up the road in the median - he zapped me with K-band and most likely had me dead to rights. I tapped the brakes, then steadily slowed to the speed limit as I passed him. I was waved by. Which was good, because my mom was sleeping in the back seat and dad was riding shotgun, giggling his ass off.

-1994, South San Francisco: Pulled over on 280N for doing five over. I was talking to a pretty girl with ample bosoms in the passenger seat, and I didn't see the CHP motor officer pacing me until he hit the siren/lights. I pulled over and collected my winnings...

I've since encountered law enforcement doing their duty numerous times, and I'm convinced that on at least a few occasions in the past (jeez) 18 years I've been well deserving and duly clocked at extra-legal speeds. Since that ticket in '94, I haven't been cited for speeding, despite a few trips across the US and over two hundred thousand miles driven in our great Golden State.

BUT... I always safely and firmly apply the binders (mindful of those who might be around me) when I see speed enforcement happening, and I don't have obvious or obnoxious modifications to my car or cycle. I make eye contact and smile, when possible. (I don't show teeth when I smile at officers. I heard once in a movie that they can smell fear if you show your teeth - or something.)

It could just be that I'm lucky. It could just be that I'm paranoid; I lift my right foot when crossing blind overpasses, shadowed underpasses, and in places where I've noticed law enforcement officers before. I pick rabbits and follow them, which also helps - as I've gotten older, it seems there's always some kid with a fart can who drives faster than me. But I do think - and the anecdotal evidence backs it up - that a lot of scanning and some careful remedial slowing can convince at least some officers that the next speeder is more worth the trouble.

 

[vought]

I would love to see the speed laws revamped with modern vehicles in mind. I would love for officers to focus a little more on equipment and signaling violations...

This. Except...for all the safety and reliability enhancements in vehicles - especially over the last thirty years - neither laws of physics nor the laziness of men can be thwarted.

Year-old cars on bald tires. Drivers playing with the #%%&^$ video games installed by the factory in their dashboards (looking at hybrid drivers here). You can't overcome these detriments with better materials, faster computers, or more awesomer designs. 60mph into the back of a stopped car will always hurt, and while fatalities have consistently gone down per driver mile and delays due to stalls and other reliability-based problems have also fallen, insurance and repair costs and driver distractions have all been on a hell of a growth curve.

About the only thing I could wholeheartedly endorse is a limitless supply of patience, so I could deal with the people who are too important to share the road with others in any sense. Because damned if I don't wish I had a few old spark plugs in my tank bag at times...