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"I heard you crashed your motorcycle": Semantics?

Feanor, you are a man after my own heart and brain! The words, the syntax, the complete sentences... :love

I found, after my own accident, a conflict between the way I discussed what happened within the motorcycling community, and how I talked about it with those who are not riders.

With other motorcyclists, there is a very strong community understanding of how accidents can and do happen, and a great deal of pressure to take responsibility for any and all mishaps, no matter that some cager is legally responsible. At first I resented this, but I have grown to understand very quickly that because we ride with an engine between our legs and no steel cage, we have only our willingness to be completely responsible for our own safety to protect us (including ATGATT yes yes). So, we fess up, analyze, try to learn from the dreadful things that cagers do to us, and keep on riding.

Out there, however, in the world of police reports, insurance companies, lawyers, non-riding idiot relatives, friends, and relative friends, it's much different. We must not accept any responsibility in order to keep the insurance co. happy, and we need to defend ourselves (and by extension, anyone who rides) against the non-riding bigotry of your average second cousin twice removed's drunken husband.

The subtle nuances of language are important, and the differences between "crashed" and "accident" matter a great deal. FWIW, you didn't crash your motorcycle, Feanor, the lady who hit you did. Here on barf we can go on and on about awareness and anticipating bone-heading lane-changing, but out there all that matters is that it wasn't your fault.

... And that you're OK enough to be posting about semantics! :teeth

BTW, did you eat the ham? :green
 
Aluisious said:
...you are a sensitive one, aren't you?

Planes crash, cars crash, bikes crash. If lots of stuff gets broken, it's a crash. Doesn't connote any kind of fault to me. If anything, I want to smack people who say "I dropped my bike" when in reality they lowsided into a ditch.

BTW, asking if you were speeding is perfectly reasonable. I've known you to brag about pulling 100 on the road, and speeding limits your ability to react to situations and hinders the ability of other drivers to see what you're doing.
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I am confused. Does this mean that if you had a female friend who was raped, that you would walk up and ask of her, "I heard you had sex?"

If my husband just "crashed" there would be no one I would be thinking about with anger. I think wether Robert meant one thing or another by it, what he said and how he said it carried a meaning, and he should have been the one sensitive about how he put it. Anyone being normal would do this, wouldn't you?
 
Heee! Yes, I'm afraid it was because of me that he keeps using very clear words to express himself. I still like it :) I will sometimes wave him on with my hands to hurry and say what he wants to say, but he just talks faster :laughing

J
 
It's not just semantics--body language and tone can also count for alot if not most of the "message". I think you have enough to deal with just recovering from any injuries, getting the bike up to par, and dealing with any legal nightmares. It's okay to simply vent after an accident-it's normal and healthy. In fact, we go through "a grieving process" after any loss--sometimes it only lasts a few minutes. Shock. Denial. Anger. Bargaining. Depression. Accepance. Get Even. Not necessarily in any order.
 
Lazarus thread....last post was 2008

This is such a great riff on one of my favorite rants - don't know how I missed it. It's a CRASH not an ACCIDENT!:afm199
As in this thread: https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497507

Posting because it came up in a new thread in Trackdays forum - someone asking about whether many trackday riders get into "accidents." Yeah...no. Plenty of crashing though, some days.
 
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Feanor said:
Jocelyn said afterwards that I overreacted (That's a twist :) )
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Yes.

But I got your drift, I know the feeling you got but I give the "fuck it oh well, great reason to buy a new bike" type of response because well.... fuck it, oh well, great reason to buy a new bike.
 
I know this is a resurrection thread, but I don't discuss crashes with non-riders.

Let's take it from the non-riders perspective. Unless it is completely obvious that I'm injured, why do want to know? Is it sympathy? Or something else?

In the original post, the person asked several questions but had an agenda: to criticize what he perceives as reckless motorcycling, with the caveat that the rider had been in a crash which implies he was riding recklessly, so he can be criticized.

I call it being an emotional vampire: taking pleasure from other people's misfortune, and there are many ways to do it, like seeming sympathetic.

And I'm not saying riders shouldn't discuss their crashes, but it should be with either people who deeply care about them like family, or experienced riders who can listen and judge objectively.

If I knew this rider, let's say casually, I might inquire about his injury and that he has recovered. I would offer to discuss it further but leave it at that. I've had acquaintances mention their crashes, and frankly they were riding recklessly or left details out of their analysis, but they didn't ask me my opinion, so I skipped judging them.
 
sanjuro said:
I know this is a resurrection thread, but I don't discuss crashes with non-riders.

Let's take it from the non-riders perspective. Unless it is completely obvious that I'm injured, why do want to know? Is it sympathy? Or something else?

In the original post, the person asked several questions but had an agenda: to criticize what he perceives as reckless motorcycling, with the caveat that the rider had been in a crash which implies he was riding recklessly, so he can be criticized.

I call it being an emotional vampire: taking pleasure from other people's misfortune, and there are many ways to do it, like seeming sympathetic.

And I'm not saying riders shouldn't discuss their crashes, but it should be with either people who deeply care about them like family, or experienced riders who can listen and judge objectively.

If I knew this rider, let's say casually, I might inquire about his injury and that he has recovered. I would offer to discuss it further but leave it at that. I've had acquaintances mention their crashes, and frankly they were riding recklessly or left details out of their analysis, but they didn't ask me my opinion, so I skipped judging them.
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[Colin Robinson has entered the chat]
 
sanjuro said:
I know this is a resurrection thread, but I don't discuss crashes with non-riders.

Let's take it from the non-riders perspective. Unless it is completely obvious that I'm injured, why do want to know? Is it sympathy? Or something else?

In the original post, the person asked several questions but had an agenda: to criticize what he perceives as reckless motorcycling, with the caveat that the rider had been in a crash which implies he was riding recklessly, so he can be criticized.

I call it being an emotional vampire: taking pleasure from other people's misfortune, and there are many ways to do it, like seeming sympathetic.

And I'm not saying riders shouldn't discuss their crashes, but it should be with either people who deeply care about them like family, or experienced riders who can listen and judge objectively.

If I knew this rider, let's say casually, I might inquire about his injury and that he has recovered. I would offer to discuss it further but leave it at that. I've had acquaintances mention their crashes, and frankly they were riding recklessly or left details out of their analysis, but they didn't ask me my opinion, so I skipped judging them.
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I remember this thread when it was hot in 08, love the resurrection. :)

I dunno if I'd call it schadenfreude, though there is sometimes an element of that to it - it's more like they're seeking confirmation of their bias of motorcycling being dangerous and a stupid hobby, and you're stupid for being a motorcyclist. Almost like a "well we don't have to feel bad for you because you brought it on yourself by being on a bike and being hit by a big heavy car", as if it can zero out their concern or worry for you because you got what you deserved for doing a dumb, dangerous hobby. Saw it when a friend was rear-ended by a car and how friends were talking to him about it / asking about it.

There are incidents that do come under the "emotional vampire" / schadenfreude definition, and it's usually some smug shitbag who dislikes you already who wants to hear about your fuckup and rub it in, then tell you "well, glad it wasn't more serious" as if they were actually genuinely concerned, then use it to tell you how well they're doing, actually.

Agree with sanjuro, I don't think I'd discuss details with people who don't ride, because you'll always get the blame game of how you could have done better / avoided it / "why do you ride those things anyway, it's so stupid" / "guess you're gonna quit riding now, huh" commentary from people who have never taken risks in their lives but throw out judgement from the cheap seats. Fuck 'em.
 
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