I want to get a slipper clutch... How would it effect my engine braking??

[Vegas.]

http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=199356

 

[hitman5532]

Start your braking slightly earlier, and a little lighter. You will stabilize the bike, carry more corner speed, and exit much smoother/faster

well the biggest problem I had was when I was going in to turn 9, and 11 at sears point yesterday. I would set up my body position and brake, then shift, but the engine braking was so epic that it would just kill my momentum and I'd have to get on the gas earlier then I wanted to and I would be pushed out wide with the engine still laggin. I dropped it in to first once through 9 once and I literally almost stopped from the revs be so high. If I had more time I would have tired feathering the clutch going thru the slower turns. In my head I think the slipper clutch will cause my engine braking to be reduced and be more like a japanese inline 4.

 

[DucatiHoney]

heather - I did the whole track in 3rd accept for 5,6 in 4th and up to 7 in 5th, then the S's in 5, but I would have to go to 2nd on 9 in order to get a decent drive out, otherwise it lagged big time.

I'm a simple person and my simple take on this is if your speed is correct for the gear you shouldn't be fish-tailing. End of story. Do you have a shift-down marker or did you just do it by feel? Sounds like you were doing it by feel and doing it prematurely. If you use the rule that you should either be on the gas or on the brakes, whatever you're doing doesn't work with that technique.

I guess there's an outside chance that your gearing is just wonky for those corners. I'm not a good enough rider to bother changing my gearing for every track. I just find something that works OK most of the time and ride through the funky parts. On my FZR I always had to shift up between 11 and 12 at T-hill. I shifted all the time on that thing, but having to do it right there was a challenge. I still think your issue lies in technique.

Did you work with someone at the track?

 

[Brewbacca]

yeah I had one teacher do show me around the track and one do body positioning

 

[DucatiHoney]

Try to find one with a similar bike to yours and get their notes about where they brake, shift etc. Some of them will even ride your bike for you and give you recommendations. This isn't the end, but it gives you insight as to how someone else who's faster than you does it.

 

[CockyRooster]

A slipper clutch won't increase your speed in a corner - it just makes you a little more comfortable ~ especially if you f* up your shifting.

In turn 9 you should be braking all the way past the apex almost to 9b, where you then let off the brakes and flip to the left. If you aim to finish braking at the 1st apex then you're sitting there with nothing to do but burp the gas to get you to 9b which then pushes you wide.

Aside fron the '00-'02 gixxers, which were rear end chatter boxes, a slipper clutch is more of a novelty than necessity. But if you've got the dough then by all means - I have no shortage of novelties on my bike. It keeps things interesting. But I will caution that these things can take some setting up and you can burn a whole day in the pits goofing around with it.

 

[R3DS!X]

Aftermarket slippers aren't cheap. All that money could be spend toward trackdays and learning how to rev match.

This is straight word.
Seriously dude practice rev matching and do more trackdays. Don't rely on gimmicks to go faster.

 

[Lovedoc]

I do better with clutchless downshifts if I'm going down a few gears usually, you don't get that big gap between wheelspeed and engine speed. I use that "Pridmore Method" linked above too, takes a little longer but it is very smooth.

Get a slipper and you'll develop a different technique, you won't develop the same skills at matching revs.

 

[afm199]

well the biggest problem I had was when I was going in to turn 9, and 11 at sears point yesterday. I would set up my body position and brake, then shift, but the engine braking was so epic that it would just kill my momentum and I'd have to get on the gas earlier then I wanted to and I would be pushed out wide with the engine still laggin. I dropped it in to first once through 9 once and I literally almost stopped from the revs be so high. If I had more time I would have tired feathering the clutch going thru the slower turns. In my head I think the slipper clutch will cause my engine braking to be reduced and be more like a japanese inline 4.

Why aren't you braking harder. If the REAR wheel actually slows the bike down more than the front brakes, you need to use more front brake.

 

[slowblood]

Brakes are for braking.
Engines are for .... not braking. They are for engining! (accelerating)

 

[Brewbacca]

Try to find one with a similar bike to yours and get their notes about where they brake, shift etc. Some of them will even ride your bike for you and give you recommendations. This isn't the end, but it gives you insight as to how someone else who's faster than you does it.

I had one instructor with a duc show me around once and it help

 

[Brewbacca]

A slipper clutch won't increase your speed in a corner - it just makes you a little more comfortable ~ especially if you f* up your shifting.

In turn 9 you should be braking all the way past the apex almost to 9b, where you then let off the brakes and flip to the left. If you aim to finish braking at the 1st apex then you're sitting there with nothing to do but burp the gas to get you to 9b which then pushes you wide.

Aside fron the '00-'02 gixxers, which were rear end chatter boxes, a slipper clutch is more of a novelty than necessity. But if you've got the dough then by all means - I have no shortage of novelties on my bike. It keeps things interesting. But I will caution that these things can take some setting up and you can burn a whole day in the pits goofing around with it.

Thanks for the riding notes. rooster.

To everyone I'm not trying to go faster per se,, I'm trying to reduce my engine braking so that I can smoothly go thru turns, without having to apply the throttle so early and push me wide...ok. yes I need more track time, which is all I want to do know.. since road riding is a total crap shoot.

 

[sliverstorm]

All a slipper does is allow the clutch to slip if you bang down 3+ gears and pop out the clutch. You can use your hand to do the same thing.

I've had slippers on my sport bikes, and on my SM's. The SM's make the biggest difference in smoothing out the rear tire hop.

That may be one of the things they allow you to do, but I've read some technical documents and apparently the ONE TRUE PURPOSE of a slipper clutch, at least as created, is for when the rider is braking so hard almost all the weight is on the front wheel, begins to lean and enter the turn, and the engine braking combined with the reduced traction on the rear wheel causes a loss in traction, which results in hops and slides. This sort of thing only happens with excellent riders on the track.

Thanks for the riding notes. rooster.

To everyone I'm not trying to go faster per se,, I'm trying to reduce my engine braking so that I can smoothly go thru turns, without having to apply the throttle so early and push me wide...ok. yes I need more track time, which is all I want to do know.. since road riding is a total crap shoot.

It sounds like you're saying your engine braking is slowing you down when you don't want to be slowing down. You should be gently on the throttle- with enough throttle control, you can apply just enough gas so that there's no drag, but no drive, and carry a constant speed through the turn.

 

[Lovedoc]

To everyone I'm not trying to go faster per se,, I'm trying to reduce my engine braking so that I can smoothly go thru turns, without having to apply the throttle so early and push me wide...ok. yes I need more track time, which is all I want to do know.. since road riding is a total crap shoot.

I SEEMS like your belief is a slipper will help modulate your speed IN a turn.

As noted, slippers do nothing in a turn. You provide constant positive drive while leaned. Coming off the throttle to adjust line usually means you misjudged line and speed a little, don't fret, only the top riders nail it consistently.

Applying throttle early and running "wide" on exit isn't a mistake on a track. It's called "using the whole track" when you finish a left hander on the right edge of the track and it's meat and potatos for fast laps. DON"t do that UNTIL you're fast, better riders will want that line to go round.

Rolling off to adjust line with a v-twin will upset your chassis more because of greater engine braking. Overcome that with better throttle control and/or using a higher gear. The slipper is used entering a turn only.

That may be one of the things they allow you to do, but I've read some technical documents and apparently the ONE TRUE PURPOSE of a slipper clutch, at least as created, is for when the rider is braking so hard almost all the weight is on the front wheel, begins to lean and enter the turn, and the engine braking combined with the reduced traction on the rear wheel causes a loss in traction, which results in hops and slides. This sort of thing only happens with excellent riders on the track.



It sounds like you're saying your engine braking is slowing you down when you don't want to be slowing down. You should be gently on the throttle- with enough throttle control, you can apply just enough gas so that there's no drag, but no drive, and carry a constant speed through the turn.

Agreed, except the part about excellent riders. Happens to me

So far, I favor trying to smooth out throttle and clutch control over a slipper

 

[R3DS!X]

Thanks for the riding notes. rooster.

To everyone I'm not trying to go faster per se,, I'm trying to reduce my engine braking so that I can smoothly go thru turns, without having to apply the throttle so early and push me wide...ok. yes I need more track time, which is all I want to do know.. since road riding is a total crap shoot.

you can reduce engine braking by being in the right gear at the right revs for the right speed.

 

[Z3n]

You need to get your suspension checked out if transitioning to maintenance throttle is pushing you wide. The bike should hold at a given lean angle when you apply the throttle, not immediately start trying to push wide. Increasing your speed will cause you to run a bit wide as you're going faster, but maintenance throttle should be possible without the bike standing up or pushing wide.

Maintenance throttle will also stop engine braking. A slipper clutch will do literally nothing for you in this situation. It's only purpose is to prevent the tire from locking up, or allowing it to slide more controllably in case you decide to start backing it in.

 

[Brewbacca]

You need to get your suspension checked out if transitioning to maintenance throttle is pushing you wide. The bike should hold at a given lean angle when you apply the throttle, not immediately start trying to push wide. Increasing your speed will cause you to run a bit wide as you're going faster, but maintenance throttle should be possible without the bike standing up or pushing wide.

Maintenance throttle will also stop engine braking. A slipper clutch will do literally nothing for you in this situation. It's only purpose is to prevent the tire from locking up, or allowing it to slide more controllably in case you decide to start backing it in.[/QUOT

I'll try as hard as a I can to "maintenance my throttle" :

 

[Brewbacca]

I need more work on track days, Its to bad that they're ending soon, and I need more $$$

 

[Brewbacca]

also I am keeping my throttle in a neutral position that allows me to give it gas, but not accelerate. I dunno if any of you has ever ridden a ducati superbike or supersport, but they also tend to be long and low so it makes it hard to do tight turns if your not totally leaned over and have good body position.

 

[sixtytwo]

Learn how to ride your bike, a slipper is not going to magically fix your issues.

No freakin' way. The more expensive crap I throw on my bike the better I ride