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I'm going to give iron rotors a try...

ohio said:
Aside from your odd syntax, I completely disagree. I think Feanor's money is much better spent on his suspension and brakes than on CRG levers for two reasons. One, CRGs are a mostly worthless upgrade, especially if you choose full length versions. Two, the suspension and brakes made him happy and encourage him to ride more. Who cares that they're affordable by most riders?

At the end of the day, he gets joy from his motorcycle and he's putting money into the industry that we all love. The only reason I can think to hate would be jealousy.
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Exactly, i'm the same way. I spend all my money on suspension/trackdays/racing.

I said that the only reason why there are haters on this thread is because he went above and beyond what most riders would spend.

You ask what above and beyond meant.

I told you what most riders are willing to spend.

That's all.
 
tzrider said:
Probably not.

Each of us have a reputation and it heavily influences how others respond to what we write.
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Exactly :) This is truth, as is the fact that when person "A" talks about Person "B" you very often learn much more about person "A" than person "B" :)
 
I rode to a friend's house yesterday, and showed him the new rotors... He thought they looked great, and asked many questions about how they felt (I'm still using the old pads to wear off the surface layer of anti corrosion paint so not to contaminate the new pads as per the instructions) So right now, they feel like wood :laughing

He made a comment about how much money I was putting in the bike and I mentioned that it was drawing a bit of negative commentary "In certain circles", he had one of the most insightful, erudite rebuttals I've heard in some time. He said...





'fuck 'em!"

:laughing
 
I'd replace the pads with the new one asap and bed them in. Old pads are not flat and can eat into the rotors unevenly. Bed the pads in while taking the paint off, they come off pretty quick.
 
With the Braketech iron rotors having gone completely thru the bedding process and with about 100 miles on them so far...

The best way I can describe this follow up on how the BrakeTech rotors are working so far is this... They're everything I was hoping for!!! :thumbup

As it stands, the order of improvement (for me) goes in exactly this order

Master Cylinder Biggest positive change, more braking force with less finger effort, milder onset of braking (initial bite is less severe) and braking is far more linear i.e. applying the brakes with even, increasing force causes an even, increasing braking force that follows in direct proportion. Braking is more consistent along the lines of an electrical rheostat, than a hydraulic pad and rotor friction system.

This compared to the stock brakes (which were still excellent) having a greater initial bite requiring a softer initial braking squeeze, that ramped up to a more authoritative squeeze quickly (accelerating rate of sqeeze) in order to achieve a SMOOTH consistent decelleration (linear)

Rotors/pads The ductile iron rotors feel as though they have as much if not slightly more braking force, but with noticeably even less effort expended, maximum (for me) braking performance (at street speeds) seem to be just about identical in regard. The HUGE difference is that that pad and rotor combination "smooth" variations in braking to a tremendous degree! When used with decisiveness, they haul in the speed every bit as well as the Galfer SS rotors (better because of the reduced effort) but if you apply rapid brake inputs of moderate effort, instead of getting "spikes" of braking force, you get "curves" of braking force. If that makes sense... It's so much easier to observe than it is to explain. In short, it feels like you're getting just as much braking force as the SS rotors, but instead of the decelleration force curve going in a steep straight line up and down, it feels more like a "smoothed" curve, so braking before a corner is more of an intuitive affair in that it feels like you have so much more time to modulate your speed, rather than "braking" and then realizing you hauled in too much speed, and have to release pressure etc. I don't know if it has anything to do with how the iron rotors shed heat or what, and I was surprised at this because they always talk about iron having a greater coefficient of friction, so I was EXPECTING something more abrubt and it isn't that way at all! They feel like they have greater friction, but it gets applied more evenly... a very nice feature!!!

It reminds me of "predictable" car tires. The stickiest tires are often not the fastest on the street because they either stick, or they don't so you're either flying thru the corner like you're on rails, or you're spinning out. A tire with less traction will break lose gradually, giving you more time to feather and readjust all throughout the corner. I'm sorry about the lame analogy, but keep in mind, this doesn't mean I'm saying the brakes have less friction... only that the way they "come on and off" feels more organic and less "mechanically stiff.

Calipers most definitely the least "bang for the buck" compared to the OEM calipers in that they were the most expensive of the parts and gave a noticeable, but very small benefit. I put them here before the SS brake lines (which I think I even felt MORE of a difference) because they weigh significantly less than the OEM calipers and have that intrinsic advantage. I also have to try and justify the amount of money I spent on them! :laughing

Stainless Braided linesa very small difference, most observable in lever stiffness, which on it's own didn't seem to give any more braking performance overall, but merely the perception of braking performance. The stiffer lever feel (only very slightly stiffer) gave the impression that the brakes offered less "slop" and were more "precise" Which, if you were not liking the precise, sharp feeling, could be a large disadvantage and backward step to some.

All in all, I'm COMPLETELY satisfied with how the BrakeTech Iron rotors are feeling so far! There are no down sides other than cost that I can see, they've been down to bare iron on the swept area of the discs for about 2 1/2 days now, with several hours of that time spent outside in front of a friends house in a light foggy misty evening, and there is not one single speck of rust anywhere on the rotor, and I looked very carefully, spinning the wheel whicle the bike was up on the pitbull stands and using a shop light and a magnifying lamp.

The full floating nature of the carrier system had me very worried at first, because the rotors literally clank back and forth on the carriers almost a full 2mm, but perhaps owing to the tooth design of the carriers, the rotors make no noise under braking and are silky smooth with absolutely no feedback coming thru the lever.

The short version of all of the above....

I like them! :laughing

I'll post more when I put even more miles on them...
 
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clutchslip said:
One of my favs is race fuel: "So dude, how many clams did that fuel set you back to get tenth place?"
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Complete side note, but I realized after my 2nd race weekend why racers get so retarded over their upgrades.

Because I got beat to the finish by .02 seconds by scotinexile to the finish at infineon.

The truth is every race ends in one flat out sprint to the finish from the last corner, and sometimes the money you spend means you'll be ahead of the guy you're fighting with as you cross the line. I laughed at the guys who measured out the gas in their tanks, figuring that what difference could a few pounds make...and now I wonder if it's .02 seconds. :laughing Hell, rotating my transmitter farther forward and down may have won me the place. :laughing


But yeah, we're also really dumb so that helps ;)


Feanor, thanks for sharing :)
 
Nice to hear they are working out! It's classic really- the higher maintenance, expensive pain-in-the-ass parts are always better. :(

Feanor, I think you are catching flak because

1) your mods read like a super-n00b with too much cash to burn (not that you are one) and BARF'ers spend every day trying to straighten out people who dump truckloads of cash on bling

2) they are jealous. I know I am. :teeth (It doesn't help that I know exactly what I'd do with all that money, and exactly how small my chances are of having that much money!)

fast4d said:
do iron rotors last longer than SS?

I was too cheap to buy new pads so I got braketech SS rotors.
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Doubtful. Iron rusts faster, is softer, and has a higher coefficient of friction.
 
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Several hundred more miles on the rotors, and though I couldn't tell you if they were getting better (I went thru the bedding procedure as outlined on the BrakeTech website) but they still feel more consistent and require less lever effort to haul the bike in from speed than teh Galfer ss rotors and pads.

If anything, the former part, of the brakes being more consistent is the part about them that I like best. They intially grab "more softly" and are more linear still than the Superbike Rotors, and as you modulate the lever, the pad and rotor interface work smoothly and without abruptness, which was more noticeable with the previous rotors and pads.

If they are "better" is a matter of preference as I know that there are some who prefer a harder intitial bite than others, but for my limited skill, having the brakes "smooth" out any nervous spikes of pressure is a big plus for me, and in a large way contributes to more confidence while trail braking, which I've been practicing a little bit these days.

Of significance is the fact that my great fears about rust have proven to be unfounded! :) For whatever reason, the cryogenic freezing, the heat treating and hardening, I have no idea, but since I have seen no rust on the rotors WHATSOEVER, I did a test where I spritzed a little water from a spray bottle of tap water on the rotors to mist them, and since the bike was in the middle of some work I was doing, it sat for a 2 1/2, almost three days that way, and not a speck of rust was to be had anywhere on the rotor.

One of the nice things about how the rotors are prepped are that the iron (not the carrier) is dipped in this epoxy coating so that the parts of the rotor that see no contact with the pads (the insides of the cutout holes and slots, the edges, and unswept area, remain coated and prevent rust from forming in these areas (where they most likely would if uncoated)

The thing is, the swept area which is bare iron now showed no signs of even superficial rust dusting. I suppose since the swept area is so polished now that perhaps teh rust has no where to "build up" I'm not sure.

At any rate... Rust doesn't seem to be a factor for those that have been thinking of going this route, and might only be a factor if the bike were to sit maybe for weeks without being ridden.

I like the BrakeTechs so far, still :)
 
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Your rotors will rust like nuts if you give them a chance. Park it outside in winter and they'll be semi brown in days. It doesn't really matter, just ride it now and then and the pads will clean it up. Even stainless steel rusts on my bike with weekly use.

Just got a rotor myself...one Galfer wave rotor. One. The other one is apparently in Indiana, and I don't even have a tracking number yet. All I want for Christmas are straight rotors...everything else is a bonus.

EDIT or park your bike in the SF fog, or in Pacifica. Rust in no time.
 
Aluisious said:
Your rotors will rust like nuts if you give them a chance. Park it outside in winter and they'll be semi brown in days. It doesn't really matter, just ride it now and then and the pads will clean it up. Even stainless steel rusts on my bike with weekly use.

Just got a rotor myself...one Galfer wave rotor. One. The other one is apparently in Indiana, and I don't even have a tracking number yet. All I want for Christmas are straight rotors...everything else is a bonus.

EDIT or park your bike in the SF fog, or in Pacifica. Rust in no time.
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I was thinking about that factor, about being oustide... Its true that the bike was in the garage those 3ish days, but it has spent 1 day outside over night in kind of misty conditions, but I rode it immediately after that so maybe that wasn't enough time and/or moisture.

Oh I hear you about Pacifica! One thing I noticed driving thru that town was that there were ALOT of cars with corrosion along the bottom bodywork :) It looked almost like places where they salt roads. :wow
 
Feanor said:
I was thinking about that factor, about being oustide... Its true that the bike was in the garage those 3ish days, but it has spent 1 day outside over night in kind of misty conditions, but I rode it immediately after that so maybe that wasn't enough time and/or moisture.
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FWIW, I never had any rust during the time I had iron rotors. The one and only thing I didn't care for was how poorly they worked when wet. I rode in the rain a lot. If you don't I wouldn't worry about it. If you have to ride in wet conditions, be ready to use the brakes much earlier than you normally would. Also be ready for them to suddenly bite the instant they dry.
 
tzrider said:
FWIW, I never had any rust during the time I had iron rotors. The one and only thing I didn't care for was how poorly they worked when wet. I rode in the rain a lot. If you don't I wouldn't worry about it. If you have to ride in wet conditions, be ready to use the brakes much earlier than you normally would. Also be ready for them to suddenly bite the instant they dry.
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I've seen that behavior before, it's very...surprising sometimes. :laughing Good words of warning here. :)
 
A follow up...

I had the first opportunity today to experience how the iron rotors work when wet... Really wet...

Because I was thinking about how they would work riding in the rain, I made a few test stops up and down my court before I headed out. As advertised, they had almost no bite initially (was braking very early), but what was also very surprising was how quickly they went from nothing to feeling like I was riding on a sunny day.

Throughout the entire ride about 40 miles, braking was an interesting affair of moderate pressure very early, and then almost immediately releasing pressure slowly on the lever as the brakes dried out and increased in braking effect.

It took a little getting used to as it's counterintuitive to feel the braking force increasing as you're releasing the lever :) But I was very gratified that though I had to brake early, it wasn't anything more different than how I usually ride in the rain, which is braking early and generally doing everything very smoothly. The biggest transition was simply the odd way pressure had to be modulated at the lever to brake smoothly.

I left the bike in the garage with only a cursory wipe down of the bodywork and tomorrow, I will check for signs of rusting, even though after about 12 hours, there isn't a single sign of any... Just water spots :)

I don;t really intend to do alot of rain riding any more and this was probably something that will prove a rare ocassion, but it was nice to know that the braking with the iron rotors in the wet is very manageable.

I love these rotors...
 
Feanor said:
I left the bike in the garage with only a cursory wipe down of the bodywork and tomorrow, I will check for signs of rusting, even though after about 12 hours, there isn't a single sign of any... Just water spots
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There's obviously many different brands and models of iron rotors out there, as well as many different brands and types of brake pads, so I'm sure that one person's experience will not necessarily be what another may see happen. Be that as it may, the account below was my experience with iron rotors, FWIW.

I've only had iron rotors on one bike in my life. It was a Suzuki racebike that I campaigned with the AFM over 10 years ago. I bought the bike used, and it came with aftermarket iron rotors installed.

On one occasion I'd washed the bike, and not paid special attention to drying the rotors while drying the bodywork and normal main parts. Being used only as my racebike, the bike then sat unridden for about 3 weeks. That time spent in a reasonably warm, enclosed garage; not out in the elements.

About a month later when I went to move the bike to load up for the next race weekend, I was surprised to find I couldn't get the bike to roll? The front tire wouldn't turn, and literally skidded along the concrete floor as I pulled the bike out. Inspecting things I could see no obvious reason for the locked wheel, and eventually put enough force on it to break free.

Upon further inspection I saw that there were two rectangular patches of dark, rusted area, in the exact size/shape of the brake pads on either side of the rotors. The metalic (EBC "HH" sintered) brake pads had bonded to the rusting surface of the rotors where they didn't dry quickly due to the trapped water.

The rotors did clean up, and worked OK afterwards, but looking closely there were definitely signs of a roughened surface where the heavy rusting had occured in the pad contact area.

From that point forward I was very conscious to fully dry the rotors immediately after them getting wet, for any reason, before letting the bike sit.
 
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Thanks for that insight Gary! To be honest, I wanted to see a little bit of rust forming to see how and where it happens on them, but after hearing that the rust could turn into something more serious over time, I went out this morning and immediately cleaned them up thoroughly :)

Even though what happened to your rotors happened over a fairly long time of sitting, I didn't want to risk any surface imperfections at all.

I did look at them very closely under a work light before I cleaned them and still saw no rust at all, but they did make a slightly more distinct rasping sound in the first few turns of the wheel (I always keep the bike up on front and rear stands)

Since I don't have nearly as many bikes as you do, I doubt that I could ever get the rorors to that level of rust since even when my bike is sitting unridden for a few weeks, I have this weird habit of kick spinning the wheels front and back when I pass it in the garage at least once a day :laughing

Its good to be aware though of how bad it CAN get!

Thanks again!
 
Aluisious said:
You keep your bike on front and rear stands in your garage?
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It's not for any particular reason other than it takes up less room to keep the bike up on the stands rather than have the bike on it's sidestand with the pitbull stands against the wall :)

when I was commuting every day on the bike, I had the habit (probably OCD) of immediately getting the bike back up on the front and rear stands the moment I got home and wiping it down, and before leaving the next morning, I always went thru a 2 minute checklist which included checking the tire pressures, it was a bit easier to do that when it was on the stands. It might sound a little over the top, but those days I had a hundred mile round trip commute, and there were several times over the several years I did this where I was mindlessly going thru the checklist not expecting to see anything out of the ordinary only to find a tire down to low PSI with a nail in it.
 
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