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Is it me, or do carbies just seem to work better than fuel inj.

Ratters said:
I <3 carbs. My ZX-9 fuels perfectly.
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If you put a factory pro jet kit in,I spent a week developing that kit for them because I hada new 03 before Mark and Raul did.The customer brought me the bike with about 400 miles on it,but when I finally got it done,so buttery smoov,awesome bike.Comfy enough to rack up many,many miles,yet can still haul ass in the twisties once the suspension was played with a little. :thumbup
 
woppini said:
is this the inherent nature of fi bikes?
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No, the EFI is tuned for emmisions. Which is one of the reasons we can still have such deadly power in a tightly restricted emissions world.




ob1ventura said:
I too have found my carbed bikes smoother and w/ better response than my efi bikes.

I however am weird. I do my own wrenching and don't want to be forced to do something w/ expensive software and a computer what can otherwise be done w/ a simple screw driver. Also a bit anal about being able to fix a problem on the road at 2am if necessary. Unlikely a carb will just decide to leave you stranded. Have seen or experienced it a number of times w/ efi.
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Ignorance isn't an excuse. I haven't had EFI fail to bring me home yet, neither have I had that problem with carbs.

I have gotten fed up with always trying to tune carbs, all the damn time. I have carbs on my VW, it is sitting parked until I can put EFI on it and tune it right. My YSR is carburated, and it drives me nuts that I make one little mod, and I have to pull the carb apart to try and figure out what needle hieght and jet size I need, only to sieze the engine in the next race because I had it wrong. If it was EFI I would just plug in my laptop and adjust it a little in about 30 seconds, then again until I had it right. Not spill gasoline, burn my hands, pull the damn carb off, pull it half apart, put it all back together, clean everything up again, then find out I need to do it all again because I had it wrong. Sure, I could use all the tools available to tune it correctly, or I could just dream of EFI and enjoy tuning it while surfing BARF :twofinger

woppini said:
Gravity will never stop. Electric fuel pumps can.
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How often does that happen? I had several mechanical pumps go bad on my car and a few friends, my electric is still working 13 year later.
 
Some EFI is much better than other EFI.

The problem isn't FI, really, it's the implementation. Some bikes get it right, some don't.

The same is true for carburetion. Some bikes get it right, some don't. Most recent carbed bikes get it right because they had decades worth of tuning to get it right. So, riders experienced with late model bikes with carbs, might come to that conclusion.

EFI's real advantage is in the tuning. Rejetting, and getting it right can be an incredible challenge.
 
If you are used to carburated bikes, then chances are that fuel injected bikes may seem a little abrupt to you, especially on the entry level side of things.

Carbs are not the most responsive of fueling devices, and it takes a few moments for them to compensate for changes in throttle position. If you are abrupt in your throttle inputs, the carbs will smooth those inputs out.

Fuel injection is capable of responding incredibly quickly to changes in the throttle, so any rider abruptness becomes readily apparent in power delivery levels. This is a major reason for the secondary, electronically controlled, butterfly valves that have become common on many modern sport bikes - they soften your throttle inputs out a lot. Entry level bikes usually lack these secondary valves, and end up feeling more abrupt. Other forms of electronic trickery can be employed to smooth out rider inputs -- the most advanced of which are the ride by wire systems.

So, yes. If you are used to carburated bikes, they are going to feel smooth and nautral to you. I grew up with fuel injection, and to me, carbs feel mushy and weak.
 
The snatchiness is common with FI bikes.

Nothing inherent about FI, except inasmuch as the response time is far faster, therefore you don't have a natural delay that smoothes out throttle opening.

It can be tuned out, usually by adding fuel to the 1/4 throttle settings across the board. Throw a Powercommander or similar in it, take to dyno shop, leave happy.
 
Burning1 said:
Carbs are not the most responsive of fueling devices, and it takes a few moments for them to compensate for changes in throttle position. If you are abrupt in your throttle inputs, the carbs will smooth those inputs out.
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Depends on the type carb......cv do have a delay, flatslides do not. I love flatslides.....
 
Fuel injection like carbs must be tuned for better on off throttle response and overall rideability To me having been involved with tuning my own bikes for a long time the carb vs fi is a no brainer. Fuel injection with a power commander and a PROFESSIONALLY made custom map is far better. (by this I mean o2 sensor in the exhaust and a good dyno operator like Manny Hauswirth, U.S. Technical Manager LeoVince USA, monitoring the mapping software at all times and with the air injection system disabled or removed. Not a laptop in your garage!) . This can cost some money but once properly tuned and the air injection system removed its way smother than any carb setup I ever had and VERY reliable. There are three bikes in my garage with power commanders all dyno tuned all buttery smooth and very reliable. I would rather spend my time riding than mucking around with a laptop or carbs/jetting. Dyno tuning is money well spent and you already have the power commander, spend the money "woppini" and then spend your time riding your Duc.
I guarantee you'll be amazed at the difference. :shocker
 
Throttle response is one of those things where the best answer technically is very different from the answer that meets the riders expectations. On a machine that goes to extreme lengths to lighten every component possible, it's amazing how much weight and complexity we add to make the throttle behave in a way that makes us feel comfortable.
 
Throttle response is a matter of personal opinion.

As for reliability, EFI beats carbs. That's why (along with the emissions reasons) they're standard in every car, and almost ever bike manufactured today.
 
Sidewalk said:
Ignorance isn't an excuse. I haven't had EFI fail to bring me home yet, neither have I had that problem with carbs..
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Big jump assuming I'm ignorant Joshua.:|

edit: I don't know where "vista" is because I'm ignorant and don't care enough to look it up but if you are doing the BARF dinner thing at Alices' Tuesday maybe you can educated me.
 
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no, it's the inherent nature of pollution controls and government oversight causing emissions standards clusterf*cks, and requiring every FI bike I've ever ridden to ship with it's fuel map too lean. Power Commander to the rescue. But then government got involved and banned that too. Environment's so much better now, cantcha tell?

:p

woppini said:
Not sure if this belongs in the garage, but not asking for fixing help. I have owned 3 carbed bikes, and one fuel injected. All the carbed ones seem to have a silky smooth linear throttle transition. The fulie seems ratchety and "on/off". Mapping certainly helped, but since I have only one bike to compare it to, is this the inherent nature of fi bikes?
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not to mention those nasty electric starter and batteries :p

woppini said:
I hear you. Thats the same reason why I really dont want to get rid of my DRZ. Gravity will never stop. Electric fuel pumps can.
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ob1ventura said:
Big jump assuming I'm ignorant Joshua.:|

edit: I don't know where "vista" is because I'm ignorant and don't care enough to look it up but if you are doing the BARF dinner thing at Alices' Tuesday maybe you can educated me.
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Not at all a big jump. Not knowing how to fix EFI on the side of the road (in the unlikely) at 2 AM means that you are ignorant (as in, not informed) as to how EFI works. I do know how both carbs and EFI works, which is why I do know ways to limp both systems how if I need to for a proper repair later. Whether it be to pull a float bowl to clean a clogged jet, or bypass a failed sensor until I can find what caused the failure. I have yet to have a sensor go bad, just the wiring to the sensor. Same problem I have had with any old bike with carbs. I didn't have problems with the carbs, just dirty connections from age.

Now, I have seen people with carburators when off road get stuck at an obstacle because they could not handle the angles where the float bowl would either dry up or flood the engine where my EFI truck would literally keep running after I rolled it on to its side :laughing

ob1ventura said:
Also a bit anal about being able to fix a problem on the road at 2am if necessary. Unlikely a carb will just decide to leave you stranded. Have seen or experienced it a number of times w/ efi.
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ob1ventura said:
I don't know where "vista" is because I'm ignorant and don't care enough to look it up but if you are doing the BARF dinner thing at Alices' Tuesday maybe you can educated me.
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The military transfered me from Alameda to San Diego a couple of years ago, so Vista is a bit of a drive to Alices these days:(

On the other hand, I could not educate anyone on side-of-the-road troubleshooting with EFI during one BARF meal as I (or anyone) probably could not teach carb troubleshooting in the same time frame.
 
Asphaultnaut said:
Environment's so much better now, cantcha tell?

:p
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If you grew up in the Los Angeles area anywhere up to the mid 80's and saw what smog used to be like, you would see that yes, the environment is much better now.

I can tell.
 
Sidewalk said:
Not at all a big jump. Not knowing how to fix EFI on the side of the road (in the unlikely) at 2 AM means that you are ignorant (as in, not informed) as to how EFI works. I do know how both carbs and EFI works, which is why I do know ways to limp both systems how if I need to for a proper repair later. Whether it be to pull a float bowl to clean a clogged jet, or bypass a failed sensor until I can find what caused the failure. I have yet to have a sensor go bad, just the wiring to the sensor. Same problem I have had with any old bike with carbs. I didn't have problems with the carbs, just dirty connections from age.

Now, I have seen people with carburators when off road get stuck at an obstacle because they could not handle the angles where the float bowl would either dry up or flood the engine where my EFI truck would literally keep running after I rolled it on to its side :laughing








The military transfered me from Alameda to San Diego a couple of years ago, so Vista is a bit of a drive to Alices these days:(

On the other hand, I could not educate anyone on side-of-the-road troubleshooting with EFI during one BARF meal as I (or anyone) probably could not teach carb troubleshooting in the same time frame.
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Really disappointed I won't have the pleasure tomorrow. I wonder if you are such an arrogant ..... in person.

FWIW, I have worked on both carb and efi in bikes, autos and off shore power boats. Had both efi and carbs on aircraft I have owned. I do not claim to be an expert you seem to but do appriciate the advantages of carbs for certain applications.
 
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