Is not following a Police officers command a capital offence?

[enki]

Definitely not behind the door.

lol.

 

[bojangle]

I am not sure how you can take from my comment that I was justifying Korryn Gaines actions? I made no comment in regards to her behavior. My question was, after hours of a standoff and talking, the Police could not find any solution other than exchanging gunfire with her?

What would your alternative solution be?

 

[bojangle]

Perhaps because many police have abused their power, authority, and public trust for so long they no longer receive the benefit of the doubt ? And the lack of cops standing up to decry the situation lends to the appearwhce they're complicit in it?

Yeah, I get that is a factor. I understand some people want to categorize a group of otherwise unrelated people based on the actions of a few. When that's done by race we call it racism, at least as loosely defined.

 

[afm199]

Yeah, I get that is a factor. I understand some people want to categorize a group of otherwise unrelated people based on the actions of a few. When that's done by race we call it racism, at least as loosely defined.

However, a group of unrelated people who all have had special training, were selected to be a group that handles power well, that can use deadly force, and that has powers of arrest is not like a group of random citizens, is it? If you want special treatment, you have to earn it.

 

[My900ss]

What would your alternative solution be?

I am neither a Police Officer nor a hostage negotiator. But I do not need to be either to recognize poor a solution. I also do not accept that I need to have a better solution to judge the one offered.

Active Listening: Listen to their side and make them aware you’re listening.

Empathy: You get an understanding of where they’re coming from and how they feel.

Rapport: Empathy is what you feel. Rapport is when they feel it back. They start to trust you.

Influence: Now that they trust you, you’ve earned the right to work on problem solving with them and recommend a course of action.

Behavioral Change: They act. (And maybe come out with their hands up.)

 

[nbean16]

I am neither a Police Officer nor a hostage negotiator. But I do not need to be either to recognize poor a solution. I also do not accept that I need to have a better solution to judge the one offered.

Active Listening: Listen to their side and make them aware you’re listening.

Empathy: You get an understanding of where they’re coming from and how they feel.

Rapport: Empathy is what you feel. Rapport is when they feel it back. They start to trust you.

Influence: Now that they trust you, you’ve earned the right to work on problem solving with them and recommend a course of action.

Behavioral Change: They act. (And maybe come out with their hands up.)

That was good. Thank you.

You seem like a sweet kid.

 

[nbean16]

What would your alternative solution be?

Why do you coppers always shoot first right when you arrive after 3 hours of negotiation?

There are easy non-violent solutions. Here is what I would do:

First you find a bearded man with hairy forearms and a dead wife. His wife must be dead so he feels the perp's sense of loss.

Then he walks right up to the suspect and hugs him tightly. The suspect will struggle, but he needs to hang on.

Then the bearded man must whisper into his ear, "it's not your fault." The suspect will resist and yell "not you!"He must repeat this again. It may take several times. "Its not your fault."

Finally the perp will cry and the barrier will be broken. He will then give up his weapon, move to california and solve high level math problems.

Is that not better than another dead criminal bojangle?

 

[72SBC]

Why do you coppers always shoot first right when you arrive after 3 hours of negotiation?

There are easy non-violent solutions. Here is what I would do:

First you find a bearded man with hairy forearms and a dead wife. His wife must be dead so he feels the perp's sense of loss.

Then he walks right up to the suspect and hugs him tightly. The suspect will struggle, but he needs to hang on.

Then the bearded man must whisper into his ear, "it's not your fault." The suspect will resist and yell "not you!"He must repeat this again. It may take several times. "Its not your fault."

Finally the perp will cry and the barrier will be broken. He will then give up his weapon, move to california and solve high level math problems.

Is that not better than another dead criminal bojangle?

Bro, Robin Williams is gone

 

[bojangle]

I am neither a Police Officer nor a hostage negotiator. But I do not need to be either to recognize poor a solution. I also do not accept that I need to have a better solution to judge the one offered.

Active Listening: Listen to their side and make them aware you’re listening.

Empathy: You get an understanding of where they’re coming from and how they feel.

Rapport: Empathy is what you feel. Rapport is when they feel it back. They start to trust you.

Influence: Now that they trust you, you’ve earned the right to work on problem solving with them and recommend a course of action.

Behavioral Change: They act. (And maybe come out with their hands up.)

And when they decide "fuck it" and raise that gun up at you, then what?



I'd like to add that, given she was apparently using her kid as a shield, they could have just left. Stake out the house with an unmarked car. Arrest her when she leaves at another time. Charge her with felony child endangerment and brandishing in addition to the warrant. The kid might have to be placed in protective custody with CPS. Then, search warrant on the house to retrieve the firearm as evidence.

Seems like a bad idea to keep engaging her with the kid as a shield, especially with the original want of traffic violations. Similar to a pursuit over a traffic infraction entering a school zone with kids present. That pursuit would/should immediately be shut down.

 

[My900ss]

I'd like to add that, given she was apparently using her kid as a shield, they could have just left. Stake out the house with an unmarked car. Arrest her when she leaves at another time. Charge her with felony child endangerment and brandishing in addition to the warrant. The kid might have to be placed in protective custody wit CPS. Then, search warrant on the house to retrieve the firearm as evidence.

Seems like a bad idea to keep engaging her with the kid as a shield, especially with the original want of traffic violations. Similar to a pursuit over a traffic infraction entering a school zone with kids present. That pursuit would/should immediately be shut down.

Thank you, that is the sort of thinking that is needed in this sort of situation. One where immediate action is not required.

 

[Melissa]

Hostage negotiation in a time frame that allows communication with perpetrator is ideal.
I have been trained to provide hope, provide solutions, connect with loved ones so they can participate and reward positive actions with positive consequences.

I have also been trained to do my best to get the perpetrator near a window for the head shot.

The motivation for the situation needs to be figured out.......

 

[Eldritch]

So, she illegally resisted arrest and assaulted police with a deadly weapon, when they were just there doing their job of obeying court orders, and the POLICE are the ones who created the deadly force situation? That's some acrobatic logic there.

Why does this country seem to be obsessed with justifying the actions of criminals? Violent criminals at that?

Law enforcement officer are agents of the system we all live in. Our great social mechanism. Police are the men and women who act as mechanics, tweaking all the little nuts and bolts as they come loose, strapping back on the parts that break off, sending broken parts away for repairs (which just come back from the shop more broken). The thing is, it is a shitty machine, it keeps breaking down, and what is worse, the engineers we have hired to design it for us are just scheisters bilking us for labor, because we the customers still believe in the blueprint the original guys designed, which was in fact a quite perfect machine.

So it keeps breaking down, we can't rely on the machine. Hell, people die from it. It is pretty natural for people who don't really understand how machines work to yell at their mechanic and take it out on the poor bastard, especially when some mechanics do shitty half assed work, because they know the crappy machine is going to break down anyway.

Nobody wants to face the truth that we need to change the plan, get rid of these bad engineers and get back to running the machine the way it is supposed to run, clean and efficient. People would rather just beat up their mechanic, because they are lazy and a new machine is just too expensive.

 

[afm199]

Law enforcement officer are agents of the system we all live in. Our great social mechanism. Police are the men and women who act as mechanics, tweaking all the little nuts and bolts as they come loose, strapping back on the parts that break off, sending broken parts away for repairs (which just come back from the shop more broken). The thing is, it is a shitty machine, it keeps breaking down, and what is worse, the engineers we have hired to design it for us are just scheisters bilking us for labor, because we the customers still believe in the blueprint the original guys designed, which was in fact a quite perfect machine.

So it keeps breaking down, we can't rely on the machine. Hell, people die from it. It is pretty natural for people who don't really understand how machines work to yell at their mechanic and take it out on the poor bastard, especially when some mechanics do shitty half assed work, because they know the crappy machine is going to break down anyway.

Nobody wants to face the truth that we need to change the plan, get rid of these bad engineers and get back to running the machine the way it is supposed to run, clean and efficient. People would rather just beat up their mechanic, because they are lazy and a new machine is just too expensive.

Good metaphor, but it doesn't excuse the bad conduct that does happen. There's never an excuse for that. When the rest of the mechanics pretend the bad conduct is normal, it's just worse.

 

[Eldritch]

Good metaphor, but it doesn't excuse the bad conduct that does happen. There's never an excuse for that. When the rest of the mechanics pretend the bad conduct is normal, it's just worse.

I have no argument against that. The important thing to recognize is that it doesn't matter how much you beat up the mechanics, good or bad, a junk machine is a junk machine and you will never be happy till you can those scheisters, and develop a more robust design.

 

[msethhunter]

It's real simple. When a cop tells you to do something, you do it. If you feel like your rights have been violated, figure it out in court. If it's that bad, bring an attorney, and get rich. That's how our system is designed to work. If you don't like that, run for government office, and change it.

 

[kevin 714]

It's real simple. When a cop tells you to do something, you do it. If you feel like your rights have been violated, figure it out in court. If it's that bad, bring an attorney, and get rich. That's how our system is designed to work. If you don't like that, run for government office, and change it.

you just used the word simple in regards to the legal system and our electoral system...

 

[Eldritch]

you just used the word simple in regards to the legal system and our electoral system...

It is pretty simple. It comes down to one word even. Comply.

 

[afm199]

It is pretty simple. It comes down to one word even. Comply.

That works!! Like it did for Charles Kinsey and Philando Castile.

You guys keep saying that, like it actually means something.

So here's a hint: Comply if you can figure out what that means when three guys are yelling three different commands at you, and maybe you won't get hurt. Probably not. You probably won't get hurt if you don't comply. If there's an incompetent cop there, your chances of getting shot suddenly rise markedly. "Comply" is not a panacea that ends office abuse. As you point out, systemic changes will end that, and they will include far better training and scrutiny.

But today, the police are janitors. They clean up the legally designated messes of society.

 

[mean dad]

Compliance is not a guarantee of safety.

[youtube]-XFYTtgZAlE[/youtube]

 

[redruM]

Compliance is not a guarantee of safety.

[youtube]-XFYTtgZAlE[/youtube]

I remember this shit. :|

Angrily, I just did a search to learn the outcome of this case. Cop pleaded guilty to "assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature" on March 14th of this year. Carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison.

Nearly 5 months after a plea of guilty, he has yet to be sentenced. Should be an interesting conclusion.